LC8 water pump upgrade...

Discussion in 'Dakar champion (950/990)' started by tinwelp, Sep 15, 2019.

  1. braaap!

    braaap! Long timer Supporter

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    @tinwelp thanks for posting this up and sharing. Great to hear that it is an improvement!

    Down here, +30Deg C and both my fans are constantly singing... I really prefer not to ride when it's that hot out and especially not on road as heat soak can see temps skyrocket further.
    Have too back flushed, burped over and over but have never been able to calm the heat.

    This new impeller kit adds that extra bit of love as does a second fan with a lower set point... Where did you source the slightly longer dowels?

    Good find! May I have Tony's email address by PM too? TIA.
    #21
  2. tinwelp

    tinwelp Professional Idiot

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    braaap,
    I made the dowels as I'm fortunate enough to have a well equipped workshop.
    I'll send you a PM now.

    Cheers... Paul
    #22
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  3. Bonnie & Clyde

    Bonnie & Clyde Wishing I was riding RTW

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    Anyone want to spearhead a group buy on these?
    #23
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  4. Mane

    Mane Been here awhile

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    Following...
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  5. Spyrious

    Spyrious Want to go offroad

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    So this kit needs longer dowels and bolts? How does it seal? Is a second o-ring also required?
    #25
  6. tinwelp

    tinwelp Professional Idiot

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    The screws are fine, still have plenty of engagement (at least 2D) and don't need to be replaced in my opinion. The dowels you could probably make work, but I chose to make longer ones because it's the correct solution and I had everything I needed to hand. The spacer plate is sealed to the engine with RTV gasket and the cover seals to the spacer plate with its original o-ring. Adding an o-ring groove into the spacer plate would be a nice improvement. However, it is what it is and I've not yet seen any sign of leaks. So no, you don't need a second o-ring.

    I hope that helps.

    Cheers... Paul
    #26
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  7. Spyrious

    Spyrious Want to go offroad

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    Thanks for the information!
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  8. Mr Head

    Mr Head Adventure Hippie Supporter

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    I'll be contacting this FB group for an order for myself.
    When my motor ate itself last year, the shop that rebuilt it did not freshen up the waterpump shaft and seal. I figure to get at that. This would improve that as well.

    I've seen the temp gage on my 2010 990R peg before and stopped to let it cool. In road traffic, and out in the weeds fully loaded up traveling in bulldust when it was too bloody hot. An improved waterpump would be more than welcome.
    I noticed last time I fiddled with my bike and had it warmed to the fans on, the second fan spins slower than the OEM. I plan to look into that as well.
    #28
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  9. getagripgreg

    getagripgreg Been here awhile

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    I struggled with a hot running 950 ADV for too long before realizing that the radiator was simply dirty. :baldy The plastic shield in front of the ADV rad does not prevent muck from getting in there. The fins had a dirt coating that was severely reducing their ability to shed heat, though not so much as to block airflow through the core (ok it was really filthy). I had to painstakingly pick sand out as well, it would not come out by simply flushing water through the fins.

    Not that this is everyone's issue, but don't overlook the simple solutions!

    IMG_20190907_121450544.jpg
    #29
  10. DesertSurfer

    DesertSurfer Tail sprayin

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    I’m interested in following this upgrade. My bike has had a lot done from stock to reduce the low speed engine temps... Replaced stock rad shroud, 2nd fan, Engine Ice coolant, fresh Samco hoses, temp switches on fans sooner, newer KTM impeller. Big improvements over stock. But this impeller kit looks intriguing.

    I ride in locations with high temps. Last ride about 8 weeks ago temps reached 118f degrees and averaged 112f over the 4 days ( record temps, but now breaking every year).

    I’d follow any updates on this and would consider a group buy in the future.

    Thanks for posting!!!
    #30
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  11. rinho

    rinho Rinho Féroce

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    I prefer (one day I'll do it) to add an electric water pump, did not have temp issue but it's a concern and I sometime have to stop the engine while the fan is still on and I'd like to have the pump still flowing then to cool the engine quicker.

    I did not dig deep on the subject but Bosch 0 392 023 004 looks nice.
    Pump body measures more or less 70mm x 70mm and has 19mm inlet and outlet

    Will I be able to fit it on a 950 ADV?
    I don't know yet.

    Is 14 liters/minute not too much for the radiator size?
    I don't know but they are not designed to be used alone on a (Euro sized) car engine, so I guess it's ok on a bike.

    Specs:
    https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/files/transfer/technical/doc/boschelectricwaterpumpspec.pdf

    [​IMG]
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  12. Bonnie & Clyde

    Bonnie & Clyde Wishing I was riding RTW

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    @rinho interesting dive deeper and report back
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  13. tinwelp

    tinwelp Professional Idiot

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    Yes, I'd considered something like that too in support of the existing engine-driven pump, but wanted to avoid it simply because doing it properly means a dedicated controller and probably a bypass too for when the engine driven pump is working at higher engine speeds. Dropping the engine pump entirely and driving the electric pump at variable speed is probably a better option needing less plumbing, and totally eliminating the LC8 pump oil seal issues in one fell swoop. However, would you be OK relying on your battery and charging system for such a critical function? Would you be happy with an oversized pump capable of handling full load and speed, but only used at this condition for a tiny fraction of the time? It put me off...

    Technically, such a solution shouldn't be difficult if you can find a good pump. That Bosch one looks to be a sensible first approach, and if there's already a variable speed controller available for it (and there probably is) it could be a great direction for a solution. I'd be checking the cooling requirements of the engine at full load and speed first, then matching the required flow rate to reject this heat which will give the basic pump size needed. There are other approaches you could take of course, but all will likely require some assumption or serious test-work. Once you find the right pump, check your alternator can keep up with the electrical load at all engine speeds. If it cannot, be sure your controller limits the pump speed to ensure your battery doesn't discharge, or better yet, limits the time at the over-driven discharge condition as I doubt it will be needed much... probably cooling the engine when at standstill after a hard run... so don't forget to consider the fan load too!

    Definitely a fun project. I've already got more than a few projects in that category though, so over to you rhino.

    Cheers... Paul
    #33
  14. rattis

    rattis Long timer

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    My take is that 14 l/min is not even close to what the oem pump delivers at 3000 rpm.
    And as Paul writes it might be so that the power consumption is more than the alternator output.
    That pump looks lik e it is used for an aux heater.
    #34
  15. Spyrious

    Spyrious Want to go offroad

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    I received mine and trying to install it.But the cover touches the blade.Anyone run to this problem?I contacted Tony and waiting on a response.

    Edit.My bike has the wrong water pump cover for the my.The impeller i removed had marks from rubbing on the cover.I need to order the correct one now.
    #35
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  16. roookie1

    roookie1 Been here awhile

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    Yeah like the SXS parts for the Exc/SX bikes :-)
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  17. Tonino

    Tonino n00b

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    Thanks... if you need one just write a e mail toninoambrosano@gmail.com... for any information ...
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  18. Bonnie & Clyde

    Bonnie & Clyde Wishing I was riding RTW

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    My guess is, this is the guy in Italy that is making and or selling the aluminum impeller and spacer kit.....Im sending an email
    #38
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  19. Bonnie & Clyde

    Bonnie & Clyde Wishing I was riding RTW

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    Order placed Ill update when it arrives and installation etc
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  20. Bonnie & Clyde

    Bonnie & Clyde Wishing I was riding RTW

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    Ok it took a long time to get here but my pump upgrade arrived. Very straight forward installation. Almost easy. @Tonino sent a video via email showing installation. Got it done today in about an hour with draining coolant and clean up. I am letting everything sit for 24+ hours before refilling and burping coolant.

    Here is a link to my actual pics and Tony's video showing install. Used high temp RTV on the base plate and blue locktight on the impeller bolt. Note no washer behind the new impeller. Easy peasy. Hope this helps with keeping my SE cooler. I also cleaned out the fins on my radiator since I had to drain it anyway.
    2007 950 SE

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/81YEhCQC64x3SChJA
    #40
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