Leading Links

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by Strong Bad, Dec 17, 2014.

  1. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    Really ! I was kinda wondering who built that set with the incredibly long swingarm.
    #61
  2. FR700

    FR700 Heckler ™©®℗

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    Axle to the ball joint, ball joint to top mount, is the one you want to focus on.

    Swing arm is neither here nor there, in this instance.


    .
    #62
  3. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    I guess I'm going to have to take your word for that, but that long swing arms going to pound the shocks allot harder or am I confused ? Any time a lever gets longer it has a bigger advantage.
    Wait I got it ! Its the amount of back bend in the legs, stanctions or down tubes whatever we want to call them.
    [​IMG]

    I don't like that fork at all it has the swingarm length (trail ) adjustment, it's trying to be too many things !
    #63
  4. jaydmc

    jaydmc Long timer

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    On the R1150 and R1100GS the "A" arm is stamped steel and easy to cut up and make changes, Moving the ball joint forward at this point changes rake but does not make much change in trail as doing this is not much different then on a conventional frame / suspension welding the steering head in at a different angle. When we are moving the front wheel forward with items like our ball joint mount for this bike or the leading legs we make for other bikes (soon for the Yamaha Super Tenere) the change is made after the pivot point be it a triple tree or ball joint and as such does change trail.

    On this leading link the "A" arm needs to be up at the angle it is in order for the suspension to have enough room to move. A person could cut this apart and make it much stronger and even change the angle of the ball joint mount so that it sits closer to the angle it was intended to.

    If I were doing this or building a link for this bike I would not use the "A" arm at all, I would make a new one with out bearings in the end for movement as it no longer needs to move. I would also use the "A" arm as an anchor point for the sub frame and its upper mount as it would be easy to do when building from scratch.

    However this is a change that is best made when the trip is done, I recommend picking up a used "A" arm, getting it on the bike as quickly as practical in order to resume the trip. Then KEEP AN EYE ON IT! this crack did not happen all of a sudden, it happened over time. I would weld up the original and keep it as a spare in case a crack does start to develop in the replacement. Then once you get home make an up grade to the set up. Making running changes to the design while on holiday is not the best use of limited time in country.

    Of course if he ends up in our part of the country and does want to make some changes we would be glad to help.

    Jay G
    DMC sidecars
    866-638-1793
    www.dmcsidecars.com
    #64
  5. FR700

    FR700 Heckler ™©®℗

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    What planet are you from ?

    What part of "from the axle to the ball joint" didn't you get ?

    It's a telelever, there is no solid lower triple tree. All the mechanical advantage works around the ball joint mount. The leverage didn't do it any favours.

    Forget about the fuckin' swingarm already.


    .
    #65
  6. Dan Alexander

    Dan Alexander still alive and well

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    I've been wondering why this can't be done on the telelevers, seems so simple

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    #66
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  7. FR700

    FR700 Heckler ™©®℗

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    Why not go the whole nine yards.



    [​IMG]
    #67
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  8. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    I know ! and I'm from the same planet you are ! I got. I still don't like the fork the length of the swing arm the amount of bend or the length between the ball joint and the axle, looks like shit !

    On that note Merry Christmas Luke ! Did you get the red K delivered ?
    #68
  9. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    F*ck ! Your right ! You've got the shop have at it ! I wonder if BMW didn't just use the legs to keep it looking traditional.DB
    #69
  10. FR700

    FR700 Heckler ™©®℗

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    Mobec's


    [​IMG]


    One for Larry. And possibly DB, to appease his sensibilities for short swingarms.


    [​IMG]
    #70
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  11. FR700

    FR700 Heckler ™©®℗

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    And a Merry Christmas to you, Dave.
    #71
  12. Dan Alexander

    Dan Alexander still alive and well

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    Yes, why not :dunno
    #72
  13. bk brkr baker

    bk brkr baker Long timer

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    [​IMG]

    So,
    These bent tubes are the sliders now ? This solution seems simpler than a lot of others on a tele-lever.
    Who has a set up like this and how does it perform ?
    #73
  14. jaydmc

    jaydmc Long timer

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    The front end on the K1600 is totally different then any other front end. The way the front end was modified in this photo is easy to do on the K1600 and pretty much the only way that makes much sense.
    Jay G
    DMC sidecars
    866-638-1793
    #74
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  15. FR700

    FR700 Heckler ™©®℗

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    K1600 utilises a Hossack front suspension from the factory.



    .
    #75
  16. bk brkr baker

    bk brkr baker Long timer

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    My bad.
    BMW uses 3 different types of front ends these days.
    And claim each to be "The answer."

    Anyway , has anyone,anywhere, bent a set of steel tubes to replace the aluminum sliders in a telelever in an effort to reduce trail ? And if so, how well did that work ?
    #76
  17. angtlalaska

    angtlalaska Been here awhile

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    I had been talking to Wolfgang regarding his very long remote pre-load on his sidecar shock (its between the sidecar and motorcycle) when this failure occurred. I passed on DB's mod to the front of his telelever to strengthen the replacement telelever as a short term fix. The long term fix will have to come from his builder Mueller-Gespanne in Germany. They are only into year 2 of a 5 year trip and as was pointed out if this had occurred at 70 mph on a two lane with oncoming traffic I don't think he would be with us today.

    A thought occurred to me. Many assumed that Drone's ball joint came loose and then the threads pulled out. What if the front of the telelever started to stretch which elongated the hole a few thousandths which then caused the thread failure. Maybe Wolfgang's telelever front started to stretch, found a weak point which then started the fracture which then caused the failure. I have lots of questions and no answers.

    The first thing I noticed when I saw his build was the telelever seemed too high and I thought it would be placing a lot of stress on the ball joint when the front shock was replaced with a solid rod.

    I have seen several of Wolfi's videos and he is not a timid rider so he may be on the outer end of stress on a sidecar rig. But I am a pre n00b so I have no experience in this area.
    #77
  18. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad Former World's Foremost Authority Supporter

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    Traveling for the holidays and only have a crappy "smart" phone.

    You guys have given me a ton of stuff to consider. This latest A-arm failure adds fuel to the fire, that's for sure!!!
    #78
  19. BWeber

    BWeber Been here awhile

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    What would be the advantage of center hub steering over leading link?
    I am guessing center hub steering is more expensive and I have not heard of it as an option in the USA.
    #79
  20. bk brkr baker

    bk brkr baker Long timer

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    You can get center hub steering on a Hannigan. ZX-14 or ZX-14 Concours. Made in U.S.A.

    [​IMG]
    #80