Leather vs. Textile 60mph lowside shredding test

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by Gruesome, Oct 15, 2011.

  1. KungBoa

    KungBoa Been here awhile

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    You should have gone with Forcefield armour in the shoulder and elbows too if they fit because there are numerous reports about D30 armour cracking with normal usage.
  2. Poustman

    Poustman Incoming Doppler

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    In my opinion, based on my own riding & accident experience and reading, leather is essential.

    I have a ~$500 Alpinestars perforated leather jacket (with some stretchy textile stuff at flex points) and Icon leather/textile pants that fit reasonably snugly so that shifting of the leather armoured pads is (I think) acceptably unlikely.

    Having gone down at ~60km/hr, slid a good 20 meters, gotten up thinking that I almost wanted to do it again (adrenaline), and subsequently examined the gear seeing that I hit on virtually 100% leather, which is only slightly scuffed (a pocket zipper at the front of the right hip, in textile, was a little bit torn) I am very grateful for the leather. Only suffered slight soreness on the shoulder I initially landed on.

    I recognize that anecdotal evidence is of only so much predictive value, and that the variables involved are many indeed. However, I simply consider leather gear an essential expense, like actually being able to afford the bike itself/insurance/fuel. (I'm not wealthy in dollars, by the way! Seriously.)

    I love the perforated, wear it 12 months of the year for riding, with a Gerbings heated jacket beneath in colder times. (If it is really chilly I throw my Froggtoggs over it to cut the wind entirely, and have ridden cheerfully through snow-on-the-road in the Siskiyou Pass in such garb: high elevation, in snowy March.) In summer, even when it is really hot (for me that's 35 degrees plus Celsius) I am fine even walking around in full gear due to the Hyperkewl evaporative jacket (with mandarin collar & detachable sleeves) and skull cap. With my Camelbak on, I can ride in blissful comfort!

    Not affiliated with any business interests mentioned.
  3. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    ^ Great looking imo and an excellent jacket with great inner layering options offering a great combination of protection, breathability, and versatility.

    [​IMG]
    I opted for something similar; the A*'s Black Shadow Phantom that has lots of leather, tpu sliders in the right places, and high density perforated panels for 3 season wearability. I could've easily been happy with the ignition 2 as well, but chose the A* as it offered competitively more leather coverage and included SAS-tec armor for only a little more. In all, it's nearly a 7lb jacket, but worth its weight as I definitely feel safest in this vs any of my other jackets.I'll switch to my t-jaws waterproof textile when the weather turns wet, and to my Viking cordura tex/mesh when the summer heat heads above 100°.

    Hopefully I'll never put any of this gear to the test, but my scars and 3 offs in the last 25 years are a reminder that it's not a matter of if but when. The non-armored leather jacket I previously wore has protected me well as still looks great even after going down 3 times in it. Just a small tear in the sleeve that didn't go completely through. Only scars I've got were in areas that leather wasn't covering me.
  4. AllSeasonRider

    AllSeasonRider Wandering, maybe a little lost...

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    I keep going back and forth on this. After doing some research, I ditched ALL of my textiles (aside from kevlar-lined jeans, I believe kevlar slides better), and re-upped my leather. I went with a pair of Vanson jackets - a 'Lightning', which has reflective piping/patches, vents in the arm and back, and a perf'd chest with curtains you can open and close. This makes for a very flexible jacket, especially for leather. I also got a 'Hurricane', which is a fully perf'd version of the same jacket. The only downsides are no hi-viz options, and armor choices are limited and not that good.

    I broke down and just got a Dainese Super Speed D-Dry. Got some hi-viz back, but mostly I got it because of the waterproof liner. Eliminates needing a rain jacket with me, which saves space. I've been commuting with it and I like it so far, not sure if I'll tour with it, though. On my commute, I feel that impact protection is more important than slide protection. On a real 'ride', I think slide protection becomes much more important. What it lacks in slide protection, it more than makes up for in armor, hence the commuting. Much beefier and more coverage than the Vanson stuff.
  5. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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    Those jackets will mate with the Sportrider MK2 pants as well, they are super comfortable and offer track quality protection, and aren't that hot in perforated. I am surprised that you couldnt get high viz done up, Vanson is a custom shop after all, or did you simply buy off the rack?

    (full disclosure my "summer" set is a Mk2 Sportrider perf...top and bottom)

    I have been eye balling that Lightening.....but I have too many jackets as it is and I have Scorpion that I really like from about 70 down.
  6. AllSeasonRider

    AllSeasonRider Wandering, maybe a little lost...

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    @Tripped1 I do have a pair of their technical sport rider pants - there's some perf in the knees and the top of the waist, never felt they were overly hot. I did go off-the-rack on the jackets. I considered custom colors, but Vanson does not offer hi-viz leather that I could see.

    The lightening is my favorite jacket of all time at this point. It's 95% as comfortable in cold weather as my standard Mk2 Sportrider was (some air does leak past the velcro in the chest flaps), and 95% as comofortable in hot weather as the Hurricane (those perforated back and sleeves flow a bit more than the elbow vents).
  7. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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    I was afraid you would say that.
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  8. YJake

    YJake PAR Nation Supporter

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    Ooooooo this turned into a Vanson thread. By far my favorite leather jacket manufacturer for real riding jackets. I love my perforated sport rider for summer use.
    IMG_1823.JPG

    Looking to buy a standard sport rider non-perf one size larger than normal to layer under for winter use.

    Fox Creek leather also makes a good leather jacket in the USA but the fit is more of a cruiser style than a sport riding fit. Mine protected me in a high side and only suffered a broken zipper. Thinking about sending it in to be repaired and continuing to wear it.
    IMG_1827.JPG

    All of the Cordura I've crashed in on the street has not done very well in comparison to leather. I only wear 1k+ denier in impact zones and only as overpants with my Kevlar jeans underneath now. The shit melts in a long slide too... Works well off-road though.

    -Jake
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  9. AllSeasonRider

    AllSeasonRider Wandering, maybe a little lost...

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    More Vanson love...
    5-23-2016 10-50-30 AM.jpg
  10. Lewilewi

    Lewilewi Ride it like you stole it......

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    Wonder if the straps were done up to hold the armour in the correct place, I doubt they was done up.wonder if there's a honest answer
  11. Lewilewi

    Lewilewi Ride it like you stole it......

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    Exactly, buy a new jacket, and continue with your unharmed body
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  12. Lewilewi

    Lewilewi Ride it like you stole it......

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    I disagree

    I'd have quality textiles over low end leathers any day....

    Budget leathers sent worth a toss
  13. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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    High end leather vs high end textile.....its a wash.

    Given the option (and I have had it) to wear textiles, including my Ruka set or 'Stich on the track? I'm wearing my leathers. Summer touring when I don't care about getting wet? Still leather.

    I won't reach of textile unless I am concerned about cold, they aren't as comfortable all day in the saddle, as issues with things riding "into the unknown" and pinching simply doesn't happen in leathers.
  14. Gruesome

    Gruesome Alter Heizer

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    Welcome to the thread!
    Fortunately (or unfortunately), that's not the outcome of that 60 mph drop test. Even affordable leathers were holding up better than high end textiles.
  15. hamiamham

    hamiamham Been here awhile

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    That test was done in 2007, no? Surely there have been some advances in fabrics on the last 11 years. Cordura is so 1990's...

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
  16. Gruesome

    Gruesome Alter Heizer

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    Motorrad magazine did an update, using the same technique, in 2016: https://www.motorradonline.de/motorradkombis/lederkombis-gegen-textilkombis-im-crashtest.714426.html
    Summary: aramid reinforced high end textile suits fare a bit better than before, but a $360 leather suit still beats them in abrasion resistance.

    Quote: "In Bezug auf die Abriebqualität steht dann eine 300-Euro-Lederkombi deutlich besser da als der mehr als sechsmal so teure Textilanzug."
    Translation: "As far as abrasion quality is concerned, at the end of the day a 300 Euro leather suit is performing significantly better than the six times more expensive textile suit."
    (I translated 'dann', literally 'then', to 'at the end of the day', and 'steht deutlich besser da', literally 'is standing significantly better', to 'performing significantly better'; in other contexts it is often translated to 'is situated significantly better', or 'is significantly better off'.)

    According to the 'material dictionary' at the end of the article, in 2016 textile suits still use polyamide (Nylon and Cordura are polyamide fibers), reinforced with aramide (Kevlar, Armacor and Keprotec are examples).
  17. cblais19

    cblais19 Long timer

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    I've always been a little confused by Armacor as abrasion zone reinforcements; it's an aramid thread woven nylon which you'd expect to contribute more towards rip resistance. Considering that we've seen plenty of pictures of Klim and Rukka gear with the Armacor areas completely burned through, I don't think its significantly more abrasion resistant then the ~600d nylon that's the base fabric.
  18. Gruesome

    Gruesome Alter Heizer

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    Aramides have a higher melting (or decomposition?) point than polyamides, besides being stronger, so they are more abrasion resistant.
  19. cblais19

    cblais19 Long timer

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    Yes, but there’s barely any aramid in Armacor - it’s the visible cross hatched thread you see in the pattern. It’s something like 5% of the fabric, so the crosshatch is great for preventing ripping (Kevlar thread is very high in tear resistance), but shouldn’t have a measurable impact on abrasion. Hell, I linked a scholarly article about motorcycle abrasion resistant materials in another thread here which held that single layers of schoeller keprotec was insufficient to be a primary abrasion layer if not doubled up, and if you look at the composition of that in motorcycle gear use, the materials are something like 87% polyamid (nylon), 5% rayon, 7% aramid.

    Basically I’m not surprised that the updated tests show that the new stuff is pretty much crap. The fact that the best CE textile suits have basically just achieved Level 1 under the old rating system or “AA” under the new one while leather easily gets to level 2 / “AAA” bears this out.

    Also Rukka gear has actually gotten worse over time, their newer products actually use less abrasion resistant materials then their older stuff.
  20. istadniy

    istadniy Ivan the Quite OK

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    This is just false. Spidi, Clover and Aldi (ffs!) make textile suits that have achieved abrasion resistance higher, than the level required for old level 2 standard.