Leather vs. Textile 60mph lowside shredding test

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by Gruesome, Oct 15, 2011.

  1. cblais19

    cblais19 Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Oddometer:
    1,927
    Location:
    VA
    I own that Spidi Ergo Pro suit. It’s level 1 overall, but made level 2 in everything but abrasion. The Clover Tekno suit was level 2, thought it was level 1 but I was thinking of the Road. If I remember correctly from reviews, the Tekno was impressive, but was heavy, stiff, and lacked ventilation. Still a good argument that textiles can make high abrasion resistance without using any fancy branded coatings/textiles.

    I believe the halvarssons & aldi ce2 textiles were not a fully functional jacket/pants combo but a jumpsuit like abrasion resistance layer. I mean, you can wear a full suit of the stuff Bull-it puts in their clothing, and it meets the old ce2 standard (the new one requires impact protectors to make the highest ratings), but I don’t consider them in quite the same category of gear. YMMV.
  2. Anders-

    Anders- 690R

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2013
    Oddometer:
    3,848
    Location:
    Швеция

    The textiles are getting better for sure, but they're still no match for leather when it comes to abrasion resistance.
  3. istadniy

    istadniy Ivan the Quite OK

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,480
    Location:
    Kiev
    Maybe there are different Ergo Pros, but apparently at least some of them are well over Level 2 on everything, including abrasion:
    [​IMG]

    >The Clover Tekno suit was level 2, thought it was level 1 but I was thinking of the Road. If I remember correctly from reviews, the Tekno was impressive, but was heavy, stiff, and lacked ventilation.
    But if we compare oranges to oranges, leather jackets that pass EN 13595 aren't exactly pajamas either :)

    >I believe the halvarssons & aldi ce2 textiles were not a fully functional jacket/pants combo but a jumpsuit like abrasion resistance layer.
    Aldi is a separate pants/jacket combo, the abrasion resistant layer isn't some separate jumpsuit. Yes, the abrasion-resistant layer in it makes it a cool weather suit, but at that price what would the leather equivalent look like?

    The main problem with the Motorrad article and ones like it is, to put it short, the purpose being entertainment, rather than statistically valid comparison. To put it long:
    1) Sample selection is just ... wow. Three price ranges seem to be the only criteria. How did Rukka make it there? Were they trying to pick an expensive suit from a manufacturer with dubious abrasion resistance claims? Why not pick something expensive that really was certified? Don't know what the leather suit is, but again, why were those ones picked as single representatives of huge categories. What if they picked the Aldi suit as their cheapest textile? Would the headline be "160 EUR textile suit performs as well as leather suit ten times more expensive" (just as sensationalist, and just as unproven in generalisation)?
    2) Testing process. Even aside from dubious equivalence between their bag in a suit and human body in a suit. This is just not how it is done statistically. Sure, sliding a suit over tarmac is, maybe, a way to simulate A crash. One crash. The problem is that every other suit over tarmac will, again, simulate A crash. One, unique crash, not comparable even to the other five suits in this same test. There are just too many variables. The way you get over that, scientifically, is either you design your experiment so that they are all controlled (surface roughness, pressure points, etc, etc), or you just run many, many iterations with poorly controlled variables and hope that "many, many" is enough for uncontrolled variables to cancel out.

    In the end, if leather suits are so good, why are certified leather suits just as rare as textile ones?
  4. cblais19

    cblais19 Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Oddometer:
    1,927
    Location:
    VA
    The vast majority hof Dainese suits/jackets are level 2 certified. I think the problem has been that until recently the certification was basically optional so few manufacturers submitted them. RST, a budget British brand, has all of their leather jackets certified to the new standard at the highest level. These are cheap, basic, jackets. Yet to see any textiles make it to that, excepting the BullIt lined denims.

    Re: ergo pro - on Spidi website & on the tag on my ergo 365 jacket it shows level 1 *shrug*.
  5. istadniy

    istadniy Ivan the Quite OK

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,480
    Location:
    Kiev
    New standard at highest level is less abrasion resistant than the old one at level 2. So yes, you have seen many textiles achieve that and better than that :) The whole point with the new standard was that manufacturers complained that the old one mandated suits that are just too heavy for most riders, so now they have a less strict one, with a finer grading system in hopes that now most gear will finally get certified on a single scale, facilitating informed choice by consumers.

    That table is off Spidi's current website, so at least that says level 2. https://www.spidi.com/eu_en/ergo-365-expedition
    "This jacket is a CE 13595-1 level 2 certified riding equipment and sits atop of the performance range in terms of safety, comfort and technology."
    But maybe the US ones are different for some reason, or something like that.
  6. cblais19

    cblais19 Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Oddometer:
    1,927
    Location:
    VA
    My bad, I was reading the description on the American site which incorrectly shows level 1. Checked the tag, and it is indeed level 2 as you noted.

    It’s also not that heavy of a jacket, a good portion of the weight is the old style hard armor spidi used, and all the extras they put on it. I’ve ordered the X-tour Evo jacket, which according to their site uses the same materials (but was never sent in for certification).

    If Clover and Spidi can do it, shame on other companies for not figuring it out - or sticking so slavishly to goretex shells without adding better abrasion resistance.
  7. pHudson

    pHudson still riding

    Joined:
    May 28, 2014
    Oddometer:
    137
    Location:
    Sydney
    This interests me. I thought CE1 and CE2 were mainly claims about the armour, so assumed lesser brands simply put high-rated armour in a relatively cheap jacket as a marketing ploy. If the rating relates in some cases to the armour and in some to the jacket, how do you interpret the numbers?
  8. cblais19

    cblais19 Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Oddometer:
    1,927
    Location:
    VA
    Different CE specifications. 13595/17092 (previous/current certifications) pertain directly to the garment, and are required for the item to be officially sold as "motorcyclist protective gear". 1621-n are the standards for motorcyclist armor, you'll see different years after that as well since it's an evolving standard.

    If you just see a big generic CE label sewn on to the jacket, it could be anything. Rukka was caught out at one point using the label when they were certifying the dye fastness of their fabrics IIRC. Companies who certify to the protective standard are required to include a tag showing the exact level of certification, and in my experience European companies include separate booklets showing the test results for armor/garment as well.
    pHudson likes this.