Leather vs. Textile 60mph lowside shredding test

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by Gruesome, Oct 15, 2011.

  1. Gruesome

    Gruesome Alter Heizer

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    What's wrong with leather for offroad? I still have some leather motocross pants, the brand name was/is 'Jofama'. Pretty sturdy, although well before any CE certifications.
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  2. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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    Dealing mud and water is not leather's strong point :lol3

    ....and I don't fancy spending 3-4 hours re-conditioning a my leathers if I can avoid it.
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  3. taosgsr

    taosgsr Been here awhile Supporter

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    Thanks for all the input I think I found what I was looking for and bought some adventure spec Mongolia pants. Lots of 1000d material and big vents. Hope they work out.
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  4. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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    My first time with vented pants I got stung by a bee, two-up on the downside of a mountain at about 120km/h :lol3
  5. ukAdventurer

    ukAdventurer Long timer

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    I really enjoyed the ADAC tests - they've done at least 3 now. I'm conducting my own road drop test at the moment but with a different protocol - samples on slightly domed hemispherical weight (anatomically close to a knee/elbow/shoulder joint). I started 3 months ago and still ongoing. However, I've done about 70 drop tests, with 50 or so different combinations of materials. Please have a look. So far, leathers are ruling the roost, some textiles stayed intact for 1-3 drops depending on the backing (2nd layer). Only 1 textile did quite well: dyneema denim non-stretch (62% dyneema in the warp AND weft, 38% cotton). 5 drops to hole all layers. Whereas, 2 layers of Brazilian cowhide, survived 5 drops with no holes (the outer layer is still 1.3mm thick in the abraded area).

    https://advrider.com/f/threads/crash-testing-initiative-on-actual-road-surfaces.1490990/
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  6. dolomoto

    dolomoto Destroyer of Motorcycles Supporter

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  7. squish

    squish Out of the office.

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    I too have switched mostly back to leather. At least on top.
    I am looking for the right riding jeans atm.

    for me it was when I was commuting 88 miles a day with some of it being fast freeway speeds. My textile gear just wasn’t cutting the mustard in terms of providing me with a level of security about how well it would fair in a high speed crash.

    so I picked up a perforated leather jacket that has solid leather in typical wear areas.
    Then this year I’ve picked up a Transit waterproof leather jacket. For colder months.

    I too will still keep the Darien suit around but it’s been used less and less.


    In my own experience with street crashes my aerostich roadcrafter worked ok at a 50mph low side. My jeans didn’t work at all in a 12 mph low side and my leather jacket and Darien pants worked well for abrasion but not for padding when I low sided and was run over by a truck.
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  8. Peanut_Buttery

    Peanut_Buttery Been here awhile

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    @squish Ouch! Did you find a forcefield that will protect against being run over by a truck :eekers ?

    And me. I too went back to wearing leather as often as possible (for the same reason: textiles don’t cut the mustard at freeway speeds).
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  9. squish

    squish Out of the office.

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    Yes and now. I've switched up my gear and helmet to be brighter, I've added more lighting and retro-reflective stuff to the bike.
    And I now ride ABS bikes most of the time. Not a force-field as such but I have noticed that I'm noticed more often.

    I posted up where Aerostich has released a Highviz version of the Transit leather.
    It is sort of interesting, but it's price is out of my range. but the combo of high viz and leather and waterproof. that would be hard to beat.
    But I think for SoCal riding it would be too hot for half to 3/4 of the year.
  10. ukAdventurer

    ukAdventurer Long timer

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    My reason for coming to Southern Vietnam was to test materials in hot and humid weather for crashworthiness. I had made a cordura jacket with uncoated 1000d, double layered at the shoulders. Unfortunately, this combination of textile and almost all others failed badly in drop tests even at city speeds (28mph / 45 km/h). No single layer passed. Only textiles backed with thick kevlar (at least 340-420gsm) or thick 3d mesh (4mm) survived 1 drop and slide without holing all the way through.

    I expect to see more textile jackets adding overlays of TPU, leather, etc at the impact points. Or even most of the arm. KLIM and RST already seem to do this depending on the jacket.

    So, I bought my wife and I, perforated leather jackets with TPU reinforcements at the shoulders and elbows. We find perforated leather perfectly comfortable while moving at city speeds. You can feel the air flowing. We ride a scooter (no screen) typically at 34C and 80% humidity. That’s 93F in American. 3d mesh under the jacket or armour can also promote circulation at the skin level. We carry light rain suits in case we get in a storm but that’s rare here. Storms are short and violent but can be avoided, mostly.
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  11. PWMO

    PWMO Been here awhile

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    Going to snag a perforated leather jacket, throw some armor on top, and see how bad it is on the trails. Can't be any worse than the Klim Dakar over armor which is unusable in summer months and from your testing seems to provide no real abrasion protection at 420D "cordura" main body and 840D shoulders and elbow. Cordura what? Who knows Klim doesn't care to let potential customers know.
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  12. Gruesome

    Gruesome Alter Heizer

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    Amazing that the thread is still going. Ukadventurer, nice work! Good luck with the project.
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  13. ukAdventurer

    ukAdventurer Long timer

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    Leather is heavier but that’s mass and mass is helpful in an impact. Especially resilient mass and leather is sponges. However, if you’re careful where you put the leather and where you reinforce the leather, you can minimize the weight and it seems to handle impacts AND sliding like a champ. Perforations obviously weaken the leather somewhat but you can go a bit thicker to compensate. Also, just don’t put perforations in the impact and high risk zones.

    I’ve tested up to 1680d woven nylon (0.7mm thick) and knitted nylons up to 1.2mm thick. Same result, failure in just a few metres of impact and slide (1-4 metres) but the slide WAS NOT over. My test’s total slide is 18 metres (+/- 1 metre), so most of it is abrading “skin” or armour. I’m starting to see the armour should be on the outside, as long as it’s low friction, it will survive multiple impacts and slides. Whereas, most textiles are one and (prematurely) done. Even 2 layers doesn’t help the impact.

    I’ve done plenty of off road riding with a leather jacket. An armored jacket (like Fox Titan or similar) would be a good combo. Heavy but sometimes heavy is necessary.
  14. thirdofthree

    thirdofthree Been here awhile

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    @ukAdventurer -- I haven't seen anything about it in your testing, but any sense for how leather performance may vary over time? I'm thinking new leathers, old leathers, really well used & seriously sweated-in leathers, etc.

    Unrelated to your efforts, but what prompts my question: I've had leather gloves live a very short life after sweating in them for couple years, or even just one. I care for them to a degree -- cleaning, moisturizing, etc. (same stuff I use on my leather shoes) -- but perhaps not frequently enough.

    (Love my all-textile gloves, but when they're done I may try deer or elk.)
  15. Seeker

    Seeker Been here awhile

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    Per my experience, how we care for leather worn for protection is a little different than how care with leather used for fashion or furniture.

    We'd want to avoid using too many leather softeners/conditioners too frequently that might over-soften the leather.

    -" what prompts my question: I've had leather gloves live a very short life after sweating in them for couple years, or even just one. I care for them to a degree -- cleaning, moisturizing, etc. (same stuff I use on my leather shoes) -- but perhaps not frequently enough."
    -

    A big killer for leather is sweat. Sweat contains salt. The sweat dries out leaving the salt on the inner leather surface. It will literally leach out the moisture from leather, drying it to a crisp. The leather becomes dried out and stiff.

    When leather is stiff and dry like that some damage may be done. Its protective ability is a fraction of what it was. It will rip easily.
    I would no longer trust it as protective.

    Since the salt doing the damage is on the inside of the glove, applying conditioner on the outside of the glove will do little.

    My routine, if my hands sweat a lot, is to rinse the gloves with lukewarm water.
    You fill the glove up with water, pinch the top and shake it about.
    The intent is to dilute any salt dried on the inside of the glove and mix it back in the water. Do this a couple of times, pouring out the water and refilling.

    Let the gloves dry out slowly. When dry, they will initially feel stiffer.
    My routine is applying a little bit of lanolin on the palms and fingers of the glove and working/rubbing it in slowly.

    I choose lanolin because it's an effective skin conditioner for damaged skin. It doesn't contain fragrances and other added products. But any other natural skin conditioner (no fragrances etc) or even leather conditioner might do. In minimum doses. Not slathering.
    Let it set a little.

    Your gloves will thank you and reward you with extended, useful life.

    If the gloves are already dried out and crispy, the damage may be done. But it's worth seeing if you can revive them to some extent by applying the above routine.

    hth
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  16. ukAdventurer

    ukAdventurer Long timer

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    I haven't personally tested old leathers, however Dr Woods did such a test for "Performance of Protective Clothing" (1996). However, gloves are a different case, since they experience a massive amount of wear-and-tear just operating a bike, plus hand sweat. They'll visibly get thinner over a few years. Full-body garments will get softer over time, also from flexing. But, it's far less than for gloves. 20% is the number Dr Woods came up with after testing different hides and species.

    Screenshot 2021-06-22 at 7.41.35 AM.png
  17. Paolol

    Paolol Adventurer

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    Thanks @ukAdventurer this is interesting, I was wonder why many manufacture are using more Goatskin fro glove instead of Kangaroo, I away had the idea that Kangaroo was better but Goatskin is performing better on low thickness, if I read the graph correctly.
  18. ukAdventurer

    ukAdventurer Long timer

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    @Paolol I'm not sure why goatskin is used in more gloves but it’s probably related to cost. The worldwide supply of goatskin must be far greater than kangaroo, right?
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  19. cpc

    cpc Adventurer

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    There are only 2 new kangaroo samples and 3 new goat samples in this graph. You shouldn't be drawing goat vs kangaroo conclusions from it.
    Looking at the samples you could also argue that 1.2 mm goat leather performs similar to 1 mm kangaroo leather, which is, of course, equally lacking statistical proof (in this graph).
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  20. Paolol

    Paolol Adventurer

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    Yes that was my impression, but looking at the graph it look to me that Goat do not perform so badly against Kangaroo. but as @cpc say the sample are just few so the statistic value is not so great.