Lessons Learned: Group Rides

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by ricky racer583, Aug 9, 2021.

  1. ManWithHat

    ManWithHat I don't like hats.

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    The entire movie "Eyes Wide Shut" was about random people group activities. You see how that ended? Shame and divorce.
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  2. Big John Sny

    Big John Sny Long timer

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    that is defiantly an activity I have found should be with someone you know, and probably a very small group. :)
  3. LOUFY034

    LOUFY034 Been here awhile

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    Anything the Army did in policy to us riders was/is total bull$hit.
    Trying to force BS rules to any event 1 inch off post was such a bunch of crap.

    They are very concerned that if you're going to do something "dangerous" it better be under orders so that you can die in a manner acceptable to LeaDURRship.

    I'm surprised they are not mandating high viz vests/helmet/condom wear while driving a car yet.
  4. Tall Man

    Tall Man Privileged.

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    New military pensions can have the same effect.

    A few years back, an Army veteran with a two-week old motorcycle endorsement wrecked his large cc cruiser, and died, after failing to negotiate a gentle curve on a road barely 3 miles from here. It's a road I frequently ride myself. The spray paint circles on the road, applied by State Police investigators, took a long time to fade away.

    The bike was his retirement present to himself; he lived two blocks over from me. I was told his riding experience didn't exceed his new endorsement by very much. He wasn't wearing a helmet on the day he crashed. My neighbor knew the man personally, and provided the information withheld from the news article.
  5. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Life is for good friends and great adventures Supporter

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    The reason the US military gave for implementing MC safety programs was that more people were dying in MC crashes than in combat. Young soldiers returning from active service (in Iraq and Afghanistan) with pockets full of cash were buying fast motorcycles and then riding dangerously as they were so conditioned to high risk activities. There was a strong suggestion that for many it was a way of filling their adrenaline addiction.
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  6. ManWithHat

    ManWithHat I don't like hats.

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    Crazy you mention that. After the height of the Iraq war, there were quite a few guys in their late 20s who'd been deployed like 4-6 times and left the service. They got motorcycles and used to tear around the area at super high speeds. Then they started dying in horrific motorcycle crashes. It was the saddest thing -- survive 4 years of war and die 2 weeks after you separate from the service.
  7. HaveTwo

    HaveTwo Adventurer

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    The military has a large number of very young kids that have disposable money for the first time. And they follow the ruleset of one person shits their pants, every has to wear diapers. I can't count the number of times I had folks shit bricks that I would ride in a rainstorm. I kept up on my training, but the expectation of zero incidents has been retarded. And realizing that someone deployed to a combat zone is NOT going to be submitting a memo stating something, I can't recall what. They beat me up over that until I marked him as a non-rider, so he didn't show up. If it's not on a list, they don't know their people. Guy gets back, I sat down next to him, did a little paperwork, and spent more time BSing about bikes than doing the paperwork. That BSing can tell me way more than any official interaction anyways. And trust me, I've learned things from track-day guys as they've learned from this boring commuter fella. We all have different mindsets and tolerances.

    Never did care about defining a ride route though. It's easier to plan something, and then say plans always change if challenged afterwards. It's not like I'm planning logistics for the world here people. Show up on time, with gas, don't bunch up close or have a fit if the group gets spread out, and have people wait for the guy behind them at turns. Think someone called that drop and sweep earlier? I try to avoid group rides with my unit, not just because I hate the "pre-mission safety brief". If I ride along, the mood can be slightly. I do try to make sure they have a way to reach me if someone needs help while out and about though.
  8. hgulledge

    hgulledge Adventurer-of-sorts Supporter

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    Three years ago I rode around the California sierras, Utah and Arizona with 23 other bikers, all from Mexico City MotoTour BMW club. The ride had been put together by "Paco". He had an itinerary, hotels booked and gps tracks for download. They shipped their bikes to Tijuana and flew there to start. I was amazed at how well it worked. There were four or five sport riders, some cruisers, a bunch of ADV riders and several two-up. Usually, after a group breakfast, the group left together and gradually ended up into three or four sub-groups.

    There were stops for lunch where we all met up again, but between the scheduled meet-up locations, it was pretty free form. All the riders were pretty skilled, but some were very good and they pretty much did their own thing.

    Fourteen days, pulled off with only one hitch. One rider, who was a wealthy 45 year old, inexcusably came on the trip with a bike with worn out tires. Paco and he rode straight back to Tijuana two days early so he could nurse his rubber back to the truck.

    In addition to being just a great trip, the nightly gatherings at the pub or bar were just as much fun.

    IMG_0885.JPG
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  9. ManWithHat

    ManWithHat I don't like hats.

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    This Paco...how do we find him?
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  10. VX Rider

    VX Rider Long timer

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    look for this guy

    upload_2021-9-17_18-3-47.png
  11. ManWithHat

    ManWithHat I don't like hats.

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  12. hgulledge

    hgulledge Adventurer-of-sorts Supporter

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    Be in San Luis Potosí October 21.
  13. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    Imagine if the armed services set up some track days and gymkhana/cyclocross events for the riders to vent some pent up energy in a safe way. All it would take is a big parking lot or runway ala Top Gear.
  14. HaveTwo

    HaveTwo Adventurer

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    I don't doubt it. But that's not written out in regs, and any deviation from regs puts a commander at risk for using his head. The five year recurring "training" is a couple hours BSing in the morning, and maybe a little practice using 1/8th of the MSR exercises. I've offered to run people through parking lot practices over the years, only ever had one guy take me up on it. I suspect because "slow speed isn't usefull." So now my little set of cones went to my nephew's sports team. Oh, well. The way I see it, those who will practice can easily practice. I'm not going to get that worked up over trying to control what troops do on their off time. At some point, people just have to take responsibility for practicing their own crap. This isn't where we need check rides, airframe certs, or some crap like that.

    I have to say, apart from the track only guys (never had issues with anyone seriously hurt on a track) I've had the best luck with those who are willing to ride to work at least semi-often. Those seem to be more interested in paying attention to what they are doing and improving. Everyone is worried about weather at first, but that's addressed with in-neighborhood practice after a rainstorm. Then they start becoming more confident. (as a rule) Nothing like a little seat time to cement theory/practice into habit.

    The easiest commander I ever dealt with was when I was covering for a sister squadron, and their new CC started asking accurate questions I'd never gotten from a CC sitting in before. Turns out she did SCCA racing or something, so not only understood the general idea, but the idea of practicing vehicle control was a plus for her.
  15. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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    One injury and someone loses their ass that is why.
  16. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    Fine - keep letting them kill themselves the way it is.

    Seems a lot of tracks and promoters get away with having track days and racing, why would it be any different if the military ran their own.
  17. HaveTwo

    HaveTwo Adventurer

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    I don't disagree at all from a realistic point of view. I've spent 10 years expecting logic from the military. I'm still looking. Right now, at least in the USAF, if a commander on orders makes sure he complies with AFI 91-207 (our regs on traffic safety more or less) he won't get in trouble. If he authorizes anything not explicitly permitted, and anything goes wrong, he's crucified. I see the same thing in other environments, where we are so focused on a checklist, we forget to understand what we are trying to do, and what the best way to do it. This comes into play way more often than I care to admit. With the USAF, I figure it's because we are used to aircraft that are produced in large numbers, and have a lot of hours on each airframe, so we can develop plans for everything (technical) that has been encountered, and train to those plans. Which in large part works for those lessons that are hard-learned in blood.

    Once one particular way has been established, it's very difficult to get people to actually look at how a thing works, and tailor actions/behaviors/configurations to the system, rather than just applying a generic checklist "because the checklist is the way to go."
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  18. mjskier

    mjskier Been here awhile

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    American Supercamp does a yearly camp for the marines (I'm not sure of the location) Flat track on mini bikes and a bunch of marines. What could possibly go wrong?
  19. RedEX

    RedEX NeverSatisfied

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    That's exactly what my nephew did when he came back from Afghanistan. No bike experience, bought an R6 and promptly totalled it. Came out of that unscathed. Which only bolstered his perceived immortality, seeing as how he was also blown out of a Humvee over there by an IED, also with relatively minor injuries. He's a real wild child/action junkie, and has since gone on to work high-risk private security overseas. But he doesn't ride anymore...
  20. KLX250s

    KLX250s Been here awhile

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    Group rides = too many Chiefs and only a couple of Indians.
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