Lewis and Clark Trail, 8 yrs of it...

Discussion in 'Ride Reports - Epic Rides' started by LewisNClark, Mar 8, 2015.

  1. LewisNClark

    LewisNClark Long timer Supporter

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    Top of Lemhi Pass where Lewis calculated their altitude and estimated that they were 666 miles from the waters of the Pacific. He was 7 miles off.

    The top of Lemhi Pass is the Continental Divide,

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  2. BarryB

    BarryB Been here awhile Supporter

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    I have never tried, but I had no idea some of our country’s history was so easily accessible! I would have thought the journals would be under lock and key in climate controlled room. Thanks for the quick reply!
  3. LewisNClark

    LewisNClark Long timer Supporter

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    Lewis and Clark Museums are called "Interpretive Centers" cause nothing is totally factual but educated guesses at to what happened. The North Dakota Fort Mandan, after 4 visits, was the least knowledgeable as to the History of L&C. Everyone knows that actual site of events is not where the markers are. But the Interpretive Center’s people would not tell you where the important sites are....not at this place.

    Two of us finally figured out the site where they spent 6 months thru a brutal North Dakota winter. The below is a marker directing people to where it was located. The actual site is in the next picture with the red box around it. but is on private/government property so did not walk the mile thru woods to get there. Did ride to the opposite side of the river and got within 100 yards of the site of Fort Mandan but that side had "Posted" signs.

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  4. LewisNClark

    LewisNClark Long timer Supporter

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    In 1999 when President Clinton was in office. The 200th anniversary of the L&C Expedition was coming up in 2003, so Clinton did an Executive Order that allocated any state in the route of the L&C Trail could receive $10,000 in Federal Funding to construction an "Interpretive Center" to honor the L&C Expedition. Some states converted their freeway Rest Stops into Interpretive Centers to get the money.

    Pollock, South Dakota is in the boonies...not even a highway.....They took their $10K and collected local donations from the few hundred residents. I've worked construction quite a bit and understand what they did.

    One Saturday all the men of Pollock poured the slab concrete floor to their new Lewis and Clark Interpretive Center....waited a couple of weeks for the concrete to cure and in one Saturday and Sunday the walls, roof, siding and shingles were erected, said they built the entire building in one weekend. Nothing fancy but the inside had a wealth of accurate information about all the L&C Campsite that came thru South Dakota. All produced from a copy machine, The lady in the picture was an unpaid volunteer, and only employee, that manned their new Center 6 days a week throughout 2003 during the 200th anniversary. The glass displays in their museum are full of farm tools that were found on their prairie, assumed to be many items left behind when the pioneers followed the L&C trail in the 1830’s,,

    The people of Pollock were/are so proud of their Lewis and Clark history,,,,,

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    .
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  5. LewisNClark

    LewisNClark Long timer Supporter

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    Barry B - the documents are extremely protected as to environmental conditions ....security is very high and fire prevention is also very advanced...no sprinkler systems. Saw their security and fire system,,,and noted have sophisticated they were, Hewlett Packard has invented and built very sophisticated coping machines just for APS document/books that has to leave a small line on the sides of pages since it is so difficult to distinguish originals from copies. HP has donated millions to make repro-ductions of originals. When the Declaration of Independence is not on display down the street it is stored at the American Philosophical Society Library. Most of the really important pre-1900 historical documents are stored here. Picture of the American Philosophical Society library below. You have to get permission to enter the building.

    Sacajawea's grave is pretty much opposite Pollock, South Dakota.

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    Attached Files:

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  6. LewisNClark

    LewisNClark Long timer Supporter

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    Sacajaewa's grave across the Missouri River from Pollack, South Dakota. (no marker) This place is a good 200 miles out of anyone's way...yeaks! It is in the path of the new Keystone Pipeline project. Knew where it was and stopped an talked to an elderly Sioux Indian in his 80's walking down the road. Very helpful! Said his grandfather told him about the rotting log fort when he was a kid and remembers a rock marker at Sacajaewa's grave but it was all washed away from flooding of the Missouri over the years.

    Anyone looking to go there - it's about 10 miles south of Cannon Ball, North Dakota on Hwy 1806, named after the year L&C returned by this route and camped at the same site as Sacajawea's grave & future Fort Lisa Manuel. It is so difficult to get to due to nearest bridge across the Missouri could be 60->70 miles away and a round trip can be 1/2 a day in remote roads.

    How it was discovered where she died: A trapper let William Clark know of Sacajawea's death and her request to have Clark adapt her infant daughter. Which Clark did, and had legal documents filed...no one knows how the baby got from Cannon Ball, ND to St Louis but Clark filed adoption papers in St Louis, joining Jean Baptiste Charbonneau, her brother, who Clark also adapted.

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  7. BarryB

    BarryB Been here awhile Supporter

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    My wife and I stopped at Sacajawea’s grave last summer and felt that she was seriously short changed, monument wise. Sitting Bulls monument was a little better, but not much.
  8. LewisNClark

    LewisNClark Long timer Supporter

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    If this is the Sacajawea grave marker you saw, sorry to tell you it's not her grave marker. When I first saw it I thought it was her grave also. She is believed to have died around 1815 at Fort Lisa Manual in North Dakota across the river from Pollack, SD. Old fort is long gone and is on a very poor Sioux Indian Reservation, thus no funding to pay for a marker. Real site is pictured above.

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  9. Shawnee Bill

    Shawnee Bill Long timer Supporter

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    Along that line, while riding around Missouri a couple of months ago I came across this:

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    Grave of Sacajawea's husband and his next (?) wife behind St. Stephens Catholic Church in Richwoods, Mo. Those two white markers to the right of the cross.
    However, like Sacajawea there is some debate about the actual resting places.
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  10. Shawnee Bill

    Shawnee Bill Long timer Supporter

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    Also in the Mississippi River there is the rather interesting Tower Rock, it's been a while since I read through this thread but if Tower Rock is mentioned I can't find it. May not be since it doesn't seem like they actually set foot on it.

    I'll just post the picture of the plaque there as to the relationship with Lewis and Clark
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    And the rock itself. Interesting rock near the town of Wittenberg, Missouri
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  11. LewisNClark

    LewisNClark Long timer Supporter

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    Thanks, I've heard about that marker...and don't doubt it....but the historians of L&C journals mentioned Toussaint Charbonneau was in his early 40's and one of the oldest if not the oldest member on the Expedition. But the marker's date would indicate, if i'm reading it right, 23 or 24 yrs old in 1803.....if it was his grave it would be a good find. And there couldn't have been that many Toussaint Charbonneau in the 1800's. Definitely deserves some digging in to. When L&C picked up Sacajawea and Toussaint at Ft Mandan, he already had two wives at Ft Mandan, and left one behind when they left on the Expedition.

    It's obvious in their Journals L&C did not care for Toussaint Charbonneau....partially due to his buying of Sacajawea as his wife when she was 8 to 10 years old.

    The story of L&C is a continuing project for everyone....if anyone thinks they have discovered everything just get on the internet or take a road trip, read the markers and everyone learns something new.....ie: never heard of Tower Rock.

    Looked it up, the Grand Tower Rock: And it is on one of my next trips, not that far north of Cairo, Illinois.

    Never trust Wikipedia as facts: but a link to T. Charbonneau's page.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toussaint_Charbonneau
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  12. Shawnee Bill

    Shawnee Bill Long timer Supporter

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    Didn't know about the age question, I was directed to that grave by another ADVrider history buff, it is along a route he put together he calls the "Missouri Adventure Loop". Very good ride BTW.
    The quote from that thread
    "French Canadian Toussaint Charbonneau. Charbonneau is best know as Sacagawea's captor-husband. He lived with the Hidatsa People in 1804 near the site of Fort Mandan. In Nov of 1804 he was hired as an interpreter. After the expedition he did settle for a time in the St. Louis area but left to for what is now ND to trade and work for the Upper Missouri Agency's Indian Bureau as an interpreter. Where he died and when is not known for sure. Some believe he is buried at Fort Mandan in ND other believe he is buried Richwood, MO. People in Richwood claim to be his dependents."

    A quick Google finds two birth dates for him, 1759 and 1767. A few more minutes finds that not much is really certain about him after L&C. Sort of puts some questions on that marker in Missouri.
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  13. Shawnee Bill

    Shawnee Bill Long timer Supporter

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    Reminds me of a discussion I am currently having with a cousin, our dads were brothers and both deceased for over ten years now, they would be around 100 years old now. We are trying to piece together what they were doing and where they lived in their early married days before we were born, a lot of what we "know" doesn't mesh, one generation and history is already lost.
    We're even finding conflicting documents as to our grandfather's first name.
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  14. LewisNClark

    LewisNClark Long timer Supporter

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    The reason - surprisingly about 1/2 of the adult population in the early 1900’s could not read or write, on census records those that could not write would tell the Census Taker (usually a teacher or minister) what their names were and they would in turn take a stab at their best guess at how to spell the name, resulting in name changes about every 10 yrs,

    L&C named everything they saw on their trip....John Colter saw their first buffalo tracks near a creek in New Haven, Missouri. Lewis suggested to Clark that he name the creek "Big Buffalo Creek", Clark noted it on his map....with this spelling of "Big Buffalo Creek". The misspelling and Clark's hand writing stands to this day on the main road running through New Haven.

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  15. Shawnee Bill

    Shawnee Bill Long timer Supporter

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    Ahh, but both of my grandparents were school teachers. :augie
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  16. JackJack

    JackJack Dulce Periculum

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    I am very much appreciating your report. I drove from MN to Great Falls this summer to go to the Interpretive Center there. Despite my calls to confirm they were open, once I got there the main exhibit was closed "due to covid" but there weren't any other visitors there to distance from. :dunno But I found many other L&C and dinosaur related things to look at. I highly recommend the Museum of the Rockies if you ever find yourself near it.
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  17. LewisNClark

    LewisNClark Long timer Supporter

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    That is a bummer! The Great Falls Interpretive Center is probably the best of all the Lewis and Clark museums....hope you saw Giant Springs next door, There is an amazing amount of history within 20 miles of Great Falls.....somewhere in the area is the L&C Steel boat that would not float...so they dug a hole and buried it, still there somewhere.....from Ft Benton down to Dillard is covered in L&C campsites.....my riding buddy did a 6,000 mile loop this summer over 28 days and due to Covid camped all but a double of nights. The Covid has definitely shut down some of the fun places,,,
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  18. Aces 6

    Aces 6 Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over

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    Saw the Journels displayed at the Seattle City Library back in 2010 or 2011. Sealed in a plexi-glass case with displays all around. Imagine on loan like a museum - perhaps a copy. Didn't think to ask.
  19. LewisNClark

    LewisNClark Long timer Supporter

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    Could have been the real journals,,,many places like APS and Smithsonian loan items for exhibit. Like JackJack above, I called the Smithsonian 3 times to confirm the Meriwether Lewis Compass was on display. It’s at the Natural History Museum. All three times it was either on loan to some other library or not scheduled to be on display, Finally on a 4th trip accidentally saw the compass on display at the Aero Space museum underneath the Wright Brothers Plane,,,Have had the same experience with Lewis' Air Rifle....only found in the last 20 years....but made 2 trips and is only displayed a couple of times a year.

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  20. dammitdave

    dammitdave Long timer Supporter

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    Thank you LnC for keeping this thread going! I'll find a copy of Gary Moulton's book. Growing old(not up!) in the PNW could leave you with a careless indifference to history so close at hand. I did the Lolo Motorway on my first big dualsport ride and saw all of the interpretive signs posted along the way. Seeing the ridgetop campsites and traveling the same route really brought the history close to hand. A couple of trips across Lehmi Pass and a ride South from Glacier along the very foot of the Rockies have cemented my interest in the real Lewis and Clark.(Thanks Timmer and Wansfel!) Thanks again, dd
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