Lightning Motorcycles

Discussion in 'Electric Motorcycles' started by chainslap, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. chainslap

    chainslap BlessedarethesicK Super Supporter

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    Interesting stuff. Always learning.

    My friend has a leaf and he keeps me in the loop with technology. But I don't have any friends with an e bike. Yet. And while some of the technology is similar the application from a car to a bike seems wide. But maybe it's not.
    #41
  2. MJSfoto1956

    MJSfoto1956 Been here awhile

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    They learned from Tesla: "Hey everyone, there's a $35,000 Tesla coming soon... and coming... and coming. Just a sec. Oh sorry, only the expensive version is available for a bit more while we work on the cheaper model." Very clever marketing -- put a meme into your head and then do the bait and switch. Brilliant in fact.

    M
    #42
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  3. ultrarnr

    ultrarnr Been here awhile

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    I am confident that the listed 35 minutes charging time listed by Lightning is to 80% and by 80% the charge is tapering and getting slower. Have never seen a CCS charging time from 0-100% posted by a company. And as Ctromley said it really isn't enough information.

    As a reference point: I have had a Energica Eva 107 for almost a year now and I am no stranger to using CCS charging. The Eva manual claims 0-80% in 30 minutes using CCS charging. But that was when CCS charging as 60A/18kW. A software update has increased CCS charging speed to 70A/22kW. From my experience you can add 50% SOC (from 2%-52%) in just under 14 minutes. So to time to 80% SOC is probably a few minutes shy of 30 minutes. The Eva CCS charging starts to taper at 67% SOC. Before the software update tapering started at 70%.
    Based on a trip last summer before the software update here is what tapering on the Eva looks like:
    Tapering starts at 70% SOC. Up to then charging at 17.5 kw according to Energica App.
    70%-17.5 kw
    75%-14.3 kw
    80%-11.4 kw
    85%-8.8 kw
    90%-6.1 kw
    These numbers will fluctuate some but will give you an idea of what the taper curve looks like. Did see charging on 4th leg at 90% at 10.3 kw. On a previous trip saw 7.1 kw charging at 95%.

    We are not likely to know what the taper curve looks like on the Lightning (or H-D LiveWire) until an owner posts it. I think both the LiveWire and Strike will charge slightly slower than Energica on CCS but it is far better than L2 charging.
    #43
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  4. ctromley

    ctromley Long timer

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    Maybe I'm splitting hairs here, or maybe I'm helping to improve how well this is understood (I hope). I think you may be out in the weeds just a bit.

    Energica might be making the "CC" phase of charging not really constant, but I doubt it. When current is held steady voltage rises, but the rise is not linear. Mostly, but not quite. With constant current, voltage rise will start to level off all on its own as it nears the max allowable. The voltage is not controlled at all during CC (sometimes called "bulk" charging). It just goes where it goes, determined by the battery's internal electro-chemistry. Reaching the target voltage is the battery's signal to the charger that it's time to change to CV mode.

    That means that during the CC phase, charging power will rise slower (taper off) toward the end because voltage does - even when current does not. And it makes sense that as you change your profile from one constant current level to a higher one, the non-linearity would get more pronounced, making it look like it's 'tapering' earlier.

    Just to further complicate matters, temperature plays a role too. Increasingly so at high charge rates. Temp compensation can be non-existent, crude or sophisticated, but it will vary how all this plays out under different circumstances. Also, state of charge (SoC) is actually a rather difficult thing to define. When you or your bike says, "85%" as in 85% of full charge, we really don't know what that means. Too many conditions involved. It's really just an approximation, like looking at your gas gauge. It's not reliable or precise enough to base data on.

    In short, what you're seeing is probably a battery characteristic, not a deviation from constant current. The easy way to find out is to monitor current and voltage separately, not power (which is the product of the two, so it masks what the profile really is). If you find otherwise, that could be good to know.

    As far as speed of charging on DCFC is concerned, that's mostly controlled by the capability of the battery chemistry and how hard the manufacturer is willing to lean on it. Since the charging hardware is off-board, the vehicle tells each charger what it can take.
    #44
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  5. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    LS-218 can apparently accelerate from 100 to 150 mph in two seconds. :eekers

    https://twitter.com/LightningMotorc/status/1091510515342299136

    “If the initial sprint up to 100 mph seems rather slow (relatively speaking) at 7 seconds, don’t worry. They’re just babying it on the dyno. As Lightning’s Matt Schulwitz explained to Electrek:

    “We actually can’t even apply full throttle until after 100 mph because there is so much torque available that it will just spin and smoke the tire on the dyno. Nevertheless, you can see the LS-218 pulls from 100 mph to 150 mph in about 2 seconds.”

    “perhaps no electric motorcycle exemplifies this extreme performance better than Lightning’s record-setting LS-218 electric motorcycle.”


    https://electrek.co/2019/02/04/watch-ls-218-electric-motorcycle/#disqus_thread

    In fairness, this is measured on a dyno so not accounting for rider weight or wind resistance but still that’s crazy fast.
    #45
  6. ctromley

    ctromley Long timer

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    I got this far and said, "Absolutely no f'ing way!!!"
    Yeah, that kind of matters. And makes the original claim, while true, absolutely meaningless. <mumble ... damn marketing whores ... grumble>

    But there's still maybe some useful data here - it suggests the LS-218 has no TC (which is kind of frightening in and of itself). If that's true, it strongly suggests the Strike doesn't have it either, even as an option. Or at best, that both will get it at the same time the Strike is released. Because you NEVER allow a down-market product have more function, tech or options than your flagship. That's Marketing 101 stuff. (But then, they just implied the LS-218 has no TC. Doesn't seem too smart.)

    The Strike needs TC.
    #46
  7. ultrarnr

    ultrarnr Been here awhile

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    No question Strike and many other electric motorcycles need TC. I have found out on my Zero SR how violently you can get removed from the bike when the rear tire breaks traction. Right now Energica is the only one offering it on their 2019 models. Very interested to see if Zero offers it in the new reveal later this month. If you look at Lightning's web site there is very little tech mentioned. No ABS, TC, diagnostics, ride modes, regen modes are mentioned. I doubt the Strike even comes with L2 charging much like the LiveWire as it has got to be tough trying to meet a 13K price point. Would not expect adjustable suspension if you can even call that tech.
    #47
  8. chainslap

    chainslap BlessedarethesicK Super Supporter

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    I haven't been able to find info on rider modes, TC, ABS for their street bike. I did get some information via email that stated "user programmable dash." Whatever that means.

    They do offer a track only bike and gives even less information.
    #48
  9. jas67

    jas67 Long timer

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    I will definitely not buy any high-powered electric motorcycle that doesn't have traction control.
    #49
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  10. chainslap

    chainslap BlessedarethesicK Super Supporter

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    #50
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  11. chainslap

    chainslap BlessedarethesicK Super Supporter

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    It's March. :dirtdog

    :lurk
    #51
  12. ctromley

    ctromley Long timer

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    When I contacted Lightning by email they told me the release would be near the end of March. I figure they did that in case they got surprised by anything about the SR/F so they had at least some time to tweak before the Strike release.
    #52
  13. _mtg_

    _mtg_ Been here awhile

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    Or, with a new product release, they're probably working a ton to get everything ready to launch and still hit their scheduled date.
    #53
  14. chainslap

    chainslap BlessedarethesicK Super Supporter

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    So, April. :dirtdog

    I would love to know how many if any have put deposits down on either model?

    :lurk
    #54
  15. chainslap

    chainslap BlessedarethesicK Super Supporter

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  16. chainslap

    chainslap BlessedarethesicK Super Supporter

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  17. Madrodo

    Madrodo Adventurer

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    And it looks frigging fantastic:

    [​IMG]
    #57
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  18. jimmy650

    jimmy650 South Canol Racing Club

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    Too bad it's a sport bike...
    #58
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  19. chainslap

    chainslap BlessedarethesicK Super Supporter

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    I'd like to see some stats on the ergos. I couldn't find seat height anywhere. I expect it's similar ergos to a 600cc sportbike.
    #59
  20. djroszina

    djroszina Long timer Supporter

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    Looks like I'm spending my money on a new boat...
    #60