LiveWire a fail... so far

Discussion in 'Electric Motorcycles' started by Snowbird, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    It’s because putting a more powerful motor is cheaper and adds less weight than a gear box; and more powerful electric motors don’t use measurably more electricity than smaller ones. The only argument for gearbox is cost, and it’s quickly going away too.
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  2. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    There is the global "green" thing, and then there's urban pollution. I won't comment on the former, but I believe most folks recognize the common sense of reducing the latter. With 70% of the population living in urban areas, and recognizing energy has no environmental free ride, "the solution to pollution is dilution".


    As I've mentioned before, I'm not...shall we say...environmentally conscious. but I don't question the brown bubble of smog I've seen with my own eyes over New York, Los Angles, and Seattle.
    [​IMG]
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  3. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    Gear boxes also consume energy through friction and drag.
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  4. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    Apparently Royal Enfield is working on a Bullet based EM. If it has decent speed, range, their usual price point, and looks like this....perfect for my area, and 8 mile commute.:thumb
    [​IMG]
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  5. hamiamham

    hamiamham Been here awhile

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    I once rode an Aprilla Mana 850 GT with CVT. They added in the ability to "shift" which make it feel much less like a giant scooter. I think if they were to do the same for electric motorcycles it would add to the appeal for those of us coming from ICE motorcycles.

    I would add that electric motorcycles have vastly lower maintenance needs. Tires. Brakes. I think that is it.

    Pollution in an urban environment is both very real and entirely separate from whatever one may think of global warming.

    Given the numbers of units Zero and the others are producing I would think they are essentially hand-built. Once HD or Enfield or whomever gets an electric motorcycle into mass production, the price should drop considerably.
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  6. Traxx

    Traxx Long timer Supporter

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    I like the idea of a shift free ElectroMoto. just one less thing to worry about. I would rather have more range or faster charging.
    Just wondering if maybe some aero would help with the range at 70/80mph speeds. Cut the wind and provide some weather protection.
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  7. PeterW

    PeterW Long timer

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    Less weight would help even more for most owners, point being that 70-80mph range will be miserable on any ebike. The original concept sketches looked O.K. then Harley marketing got hold of it.
  8. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Life is for good friends and great adventures Supporter

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    I'm sure the Harley design team were under pressure. Probably half the senior management telling them to do something fresh that would appeal to new buyers, while the other half we're insisting on keeping recognizable design cues so it's obviously still a Harley.

    I like the tank shape and overall profile but the headlamp shroud to me is ugly and obviously trying to be "Harley"
  9. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    So you are telling me, no matter the rpm of the motor, the electric consumption will be the same when pushing a motorcycle at a given speed. Gearing is totally irrelevant. Correct? Example, no matter whether the motor is spinning at 5000 rpm or 10,000 rpm running a vehicle at say 70 mph on flat ground, no wind, it will consume X amount of power from the batteries. Right?

    Why? I have had some background in electric, not real in-depth, but some understanding. Not enough to understand this concept though. Some explanation of why, what is going on that makes it so.

    Do frictional losses due to spinning the motor play much in the process or are the negligible.

    Same as above - why will it not get better range through gearing?

    Funny, the shifting has been far from a worry with me. I find it fun and refreshing to be controlling the bike that way, a downshift or two getting the rpm right for smooth cornering and acceleration out. Downshifting to stay in the good range of power. All that. I also prefer manual transmissions in my truck/car so I'm not having the vehicle hit a point where it's downshifting and upshifting back and forth when driving in the hills and mountain areas, especially in the truck when pulling a trailer. A paddle shifter set up with manual shift setting on an automatic would work for me too.
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  10. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Life is for good friends and great adventures Supporter

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    Gearing is mostly irrelevant, within the operating speed range of the electric motor - which will be matched to the motorcycle design of course.

    As electric motor rpm increases, the spinning magnets produce a voltage that is opposite to the voltage being applied by the batteries/power supply. This "Back-EMF" increases the faster the motor spins, decreasing the net voltage and decreasing the torque. At zero rpm there is no back-EMF so maximum torque. No doubt there is some rpm-dependent mechanical resistance but it will be tiny compared to the friction increases in a piston engine. Also, if there is any mechanical reduction or drive-angle change required, apart from the final drive, it will be a single set of gears, running in an optimal lubricant so also pretty small compared to the complex powertrain for an ICE.
  11. Snowbird

    Snowbird Cereal Killer

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    There's no denying our use of carbon fuels is bad for the long term comfort of humans and the very survival of flora and fauna. Solar electric transportation and passive solar in buildings will help tremendously. I recently spoke with a carbon energy developer (not on this board) who was trying to convince me of something. In response to one of my questions, his reply was "I'll be dead by then," which spoke volumes.
  12. ChaoSS402

    ChaoSS402 Been here awhile

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    I think you are looking at it wrong. The question isn't why doesn't the electric motor get less efficient at higher speeds, it's why does the ICE get less efficient outside of a certain rpm band.

    Once you start thinking through the answer to that question you'll realize that the reasons for that just don't apply to electric motors.
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  13. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    :becca

    No, I already understand that. I'm asking...

    :deal DOES AN ELECTRIC POWERED VEHICLE NOT BENEFIT IN EXTENDING THE RANGE, WHEN GEARING REDUCES RUNNING SPEED OF THE ELECTRIC MOTOR WHILE MAINTAINING A CONSISTENT SPEED? IF NOT WHY NOT? IF I UNDERSTOOD THE DAMN THING I WOULDN'T ASK!

    Everyone knows talking louder enhances understanding, maybe all caps here will be about as effective... :lol3
  14. neanderthal

    neanderthal globeriding wannabe

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    Reducing the running speed of an electrical motor, in general, doesn't reduce it's electrical consumption. However, physics still applies though, so at a higher speed, that motor is pushing an object through air and air resistance still applies.
  15. ChaoSS402

    ChaoSS402 Been here awhile

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    You are still looking at it wrong. Why would using gearing to reduce the running speed of the motor while running a consistent speed reduce power consumption? We all know (at least at the basic level) why an ICE acts this way, why do you think an electrical motor would?
  16. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    Probably not even brakes, with regenerative braking they may last a lifetime.
  17. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    Frictional losses due to spinning the motor are negligible. I will miss the shifting - hell, I chose my Jeep to be manual - but it will do absolutely nothing to EV. Well, maybe a belt CVT for extremely low-cost low-end electric scooters...
  18. anotherguy

    anotherguy Long timer

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    If people had held that attitude LA would still look like this on a sunny day. Change will come whether you subscribe to it or not.

    [​IMG]
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  19. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    Why would it? The reason ICE runs into inefficiency at higher RPM is not only friction losses - it's because it transforms linear movement of the pistons to the rotational movement of the wheel. An electric motor doesn't have this problem, it's movement is rotational from the beginning. And, of course, friction losses of the piston sliding along the walls of the cylinder - an electric motor is contactless, everything runs on bearings and nothing touches anything else.
  20. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    I wounder about that myself.
    The thing is an EMs riding experience is so elemental, unique, and enjoyably as it is, that perhaps it wont be missed in the same way we can appreciate different types of bikes for different types of uses.
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