Long Way Up?

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by GreyThumper, Aug 22, 2018.

  1. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Life is for good friends and great adventures Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2003
    Oddometer:
    10,532
    Location:
    Southern Louisiana or Southern England or ...
    It will probably be half that price by the time it needs replacing.
    liberpolly likes this.
  2. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2015
    Oddometer:
    4,566
    Location:
    Seattle
    Or 4 times the capacity.
    scottdc and Traxx like this.
  3. KiLeR650

    KiLeR650 tjoseph is unethical.

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Oddometer:
    1,627
    Location:
    .
    By the time it needs replacing, new bikes may well come with batteries that are both those things. No guarantee it'll be backwards compatible though. It's just as likely that by then even finding a drop in replacement will be hard, and carry an inflated price to match that effort. It's not a knock against electrics, I'm sure the batteries are super reliable, but if repairability in 10 or more years is a concern for someone when buying a new bike, it is a potential problem.
  4. KiLeR650

    KiLeR650 tjoseph is unethical.

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Oddometer:
    1,627
    Location:
    .
    Pick one. It's faster, it's cheaper, it has better brakes, it has higher quality suspension, depreciation is reasonably predicable, it can be used for a whole lot more than only commuting a few miles in traffic.

    And I just feel compelled to reiterate, I'm not an electric bike hater. I just don't like pretending that the decision to buy one today is based on anything other than you think electric motorcycles are cool. Which is a good enough reason to buy any motorcycle. Let's just all be honest about it. Do you think Ewan and Charlie are doing it on electric motorcycles for any reason other than that?
  5. Lee R

    Lee R Man in a Box

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,014
    Location:
    Northern Alabama
    I wouldn’t worry about the battery’s. Lot’s of good data on Tesla battery’s out well past 100k miles and it’s a 10-15% drop in charge, the battery’s will last the life of the vehicle. It’s using a different chemistry then cell phone battery’s which are designed for hour life at the expense of lifespan since they know you’ll replace the phone in 2-3 years. I remember getting asked this by people when I owned a Prius (had one for 12 years 200k miles) how I was stupid and would be replacing the battery pack in 5 years. The pack was fine when I sold it at 200k miles. That was the most reliable car I’ve ever had by far, one set of brake pads, one serpentine belt and oil changes with mid 40’s average mpg over the time I owned it. I called it the soul eating Prius for it’s shear thrill of driving, saved me a motorcycle in gas costs though (approx 13k dollars in fuel savings vs prior SUV).

    The zero FX would make a mean commuter.

    AngusMcL likes this.
  6. Lee R

    Lee R Man in a Box

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,014
    Location:
    Northern Alabama
    For other than commuting yes I would definitely look for something that has a thrill, although I’d argue plenty of thrills can be had on a z400. For commuting I’m definitely working off the spreadsheet since I’m looking to save cash and redirect it to other hobby’s or bikes. I’ve commuted quite a few miles by motorcycle and car’s are more cost effective unless you go small cc and lower consumables costs. The bikes that are exciting tend to cost way more in consumables and maintenance plus initial cost.

    Used E bike would be fine too, hard to find like you said though. Really the only thing going against them is initial cost right now. They definitely have way more power and maintenance is amazing with them. It’s that 10k initial cost that bites hard vs even a new z400 at 5k.

    I think the Livewire is more for someone with plenty of money who wants to take a quick trip around on the weekend. If we ever start to see charging stations that range could realistically increase. It would be cool to see chargers at popular moto destinations.
  7. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2015
    Oddometer:
    4,566
    Location:
    Seattle
    "It's faster" - false
    "it's cheaper," - so is shit
    "it has better brakes" - false
    "it has higher quality suspension" - false
    "depreciation is reasonably predicable" - so is Zero's
    "it can be used for a whole lot more than only commuting a few miles in traffic." - did you fail to understand "range aside" part?
  8. Lee R

    Lee R Man in a Box

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,014
    Location:
    Northern Alabama
    I think the long way up has already ignited a discussion about electric bikes and it hasn’t even aired yet. This will probably be mentioned as an objective in the first episode lol.
  9. docwyte

    docwyte Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Oddometer:
    2,560
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    I am a dentist and buying a $30k bike isn't happening for me. That's a lot of money to spend on a toy! I'm intrigued by the possibility of electric vehicles but until the range/charge time/charging stations infrastructure gets to the point where traditional vehicles currently are, electric vehicles will be for commuting around a city only.
  10. NoMoreIdeas

    NoMoreIdeas Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Oddometer:
    63
    Location:
    Olathe ks
    I own both, and the Zero is better in every way except charge time (range is identical). When I rode the FX for the first time, I didn't think "what can I buy with $10k", I said "I have got to find $10k to buy this bike" So far this year - 600 miles on the DRZ for long off road fun, 5000 miles on the Zero for everything else

    Attached Files:

    Traxx and liberpolly like this.
  11. AwDang

    AwDang Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2014
    Oddometer:
    2,100
    Location:
    121 miles from Tellico Plains
    Anything else makes boring tv
    Traxx likes this.
  12. windmill

    windmill Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Oddometer:
    5,536
    Location:
    Kent, Washington State
    There are already companies that rebuild EV batteries. Each EV battery may be unique, but they're basically just cases to contain generic 18650 cells which are used in a wide range of everyday applications. A Tesla S has 7104 18650 cells in its "battery".

    This is the guts of a Zero "battery".
    [​IMG]

    EV enthusiasts make their own "batteries".
    http://www.diybatteries.com/category/instructions/
  13. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Life is for good friends and great adventures Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2003
    Oddometer:
    10,532
    Location:
    Southern Louisiana or Southern England or ...
    18650 is the size. There are lots of variations on the chemistry. Tesla 3 has a higher power density in each cell than the S or X for example.
  14. windmill

    windmill Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Oddometer:
    5,536
    Location:
    Kent, Washington State
  15. windmill

    windmill Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Oddometer:
    5,536
    Location:
    Kent, Washington State
    Yes, my point is because of that they can be rebuilt or upgraded. One doesn't need to worry about a battery becoming NLA.
    liberpolly likes this.
  16. AwDang

    AwDang Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2014
    Oddometer:
    2,100
    Location:
    121 miles from Tellico Plains
    This is great for areas where there is population.
    Ain’t gonna work on the Al-Can, Dempster or Dalton
    Rollin' likes this.
  17. windmill

    windmill Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Oddometer:
    5,536
    Location:
    Kent, Washington State
    And areas of population are where most people will be riding. Viability isn't determined by the 1 in 100,000 user.

    dsquires16 and liberpolly like this.
  18. Johnny Dakar

    Johnny Dakar Fuckin' Smartass

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    Oddometer:
    15,590
    Location:
    Escondildo
    Yeah. Your KLR is faster, depreciates less, has better brakes, and higher quality suspension than the Zero.

    Right.

    But you win on cheaper.
    liberpolly likes this.
  19. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2015
    Oddometer:
    4,566
    Location:
    Seattle
    I've already seen Zero with milk crate luggage, so KLR may be a cheaper bike but it doesn't have a monopoly on cheaper riders :)
    dsquires16 and Richy like this.
  20. windmill

    windmill Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Oddometer:
    5,536
    Location:
    Kent, Washington State
    KLRs have been discontinued, that will lower demand for milk crates, and make them cheaper for cheap Zero riders.
    Richy and liberpolly like this.