Long Way Up?

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by GreyThumper, Aug 22, 2018.

  1. RockyDS

    RockyDS Lost in the wilderness

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    I don't know, but I assume you're correct about the amount of electricity, in which case I agree with you.
  2. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    Not really, I see block heaters in 100-500W range, L1 is 2400W. That may end up quite visible in a business' electricity bill.
  3. Rollin'

    Rollin' does it come in black? Supporter

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  4. RoadRdr

    RoadRdr Been here awhile

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    The first thing is noticed is the bikes are dirty. It looks like they’ve been used off city streets. The second thing I noticed is the luggage appears smaller than the panniers on the previous bikes.

    I’m looking forward to the explanations. And seeing these setups perform.
  5. KiLeR650

    KiLeR650 tjoseph is unethical.

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    First thing I noticed is no one in that pics looks like they're having fun :lol3
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  6. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    I was going by the 12amp/1440w L1 charging rate Vs, a 1000w block heater that would be common in northern climes. 20amp/2400w is the normal limit of a standard 120v outlet. A L1 charger @ 8 hours would cost 88 cents more than a 500w block heater @ 8 hours at PSE rates.

    I admit I'm no expert, the numbers here are "AFAIK", and I'm open to correction.
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  7. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Life is for good friends and great adventures Supporter

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    Not sure why people are assuming the bikes are going to need extra heating. Lithium batteries self-heat when you start drawing current from them in cold weather. For the low temps the lads are experiencing, of not much below freezing at worst, the bikes might be a bit sluggish for the first minute or so starting off in the morning. NBD!

    Also, compared to powering the bike, heated gear and grips draw very little current and would barely affect the range. NBD!
  8. KiLeR650

    KiLeR650 tjoseph is unethical.

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    Just the first credibleish thing I found. The reporting on the numbers is a little hard to follow, but if I understood it right: at 20 degrees f range fell by 12% without any cabin heating, and by as much as 38% with cabin heating. So being cold does effect range, and using electric heating stuff effects it even more.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/cold-weather-saps-electric-car-batteries-2019-02-07
  9. Gestalt

    Gestalt Been here awhile

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    The thing that strikers me is the lack of the normal customized paint jobs on these bikes, the last two trips had super cool individual designs. That is an obvious sign this is a major HD PR gig and I would expect funded adventure. No great shock to find the bikes not carrying a large amount of gear when they are struggling to pull themselves a reasonable mileage. I still think this is a shame this could not have be a conventional adventure bike trip but it will still be interesting but for different reasons. It may have the effect however of belittling the real ADV rides which some of you know are very difficult indeed unlike the heavily supported and in this case near totally made for TV entertainment show which this really is I guess.
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  10. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Life is for good friends and great adventures Supporter

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    I do hope the lads are having some fun and not feeling too miserable about their support vehicles, filming commitments and general lack of the sort of adventures that come about due to riding under-prepared, ill-equipped bikes, shoddy gear, etc.

    I think you have to choose a hard route to struggle through S. America. The roads aren't great but unless you deliberately avoid the main highways, you can travel the length and breadth without anything like the worst they encountered in LWR and LWD.
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  11. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Life is for good friends and great adventures Supporter

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    20F is a lot lower than I expect Ewan and Charley are experiencing. Also, though the bike's overall battery capacity is much lower than a car, the power draw of electric gear is VERY much lower. If temps are only between 30-40F (higher than that now they're heading North) they are not going to need more than 100W of heating to stay more than comfortable - maybe none if they have good enough gear (and they probably have the best, of course.) That's trivial compared to the power required for the bikes to run. Car heater will need a lot more power because it's warming the air inside a large, poorly insulted box with lots of glass.
  12. KiLeR650

    KiLeR650 tjoseph is unethical.

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    It's a data point based on something more than a gut feeling. It tell us that temperature does have an effect and heating things is also non trivial. If you want to extrapolate a little and make a guess at how weather conditions are effecting E&W's bikes, fine. But sticking to the line it makes no difference is just stubborn.

    35 degree's and heated grips, does 15% loss seem reasonable based on that article? Does to me. 10% more loss because of mud instead of pavement and tire choices? 5% from extra wight? If you split the difference between claimed highway miles and claimed city miles, you're only starting with like a 105 miles range. Subtract these little inefficiencies, and that range drops fast. Add an unlucky headwind, and/or an elevation gain, you get down to 50-60 miles fast.

    Even the most direct route from Tierra Del Fuego to L.A. is something like 11,000 miles. The other "long ways" were about 4 months long, I assume this is about the same. Riding 5 days a week means any motorcycle day they travel less than about 140 miles, they need to make that up later. Even with higher temps and pavement, we're still talking about at least 2 mid day charges to do that (going faster lowers range). I'm getting worried their plan is getting borked right now at the start, I'm not sure it's going to be possible to ride the livewires the whole way if they have a hard date to finish on.

    I guess we'll know when it airs. In a year?
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  13. liberpolly

    liberpolly Nu, shoyn, nudnick!

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    The problem is with charging, not with riding. It is generally not recommended to charge Li batteries below freezing temperatures, or at least drastically reduce the charging rate. Some batteries include automatic heating circuit powered by the charger, but I don't know if LiveWire has one.
  14. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Life is for good friends and great adventures Supporter

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    I don't know the specifics but Li batteries get warm while discharging (which is why the battery casing has so many fins and why Tesla battery packs have built-in cooling - like the batteries are built into a radiator core.) If charged right away, while still warm, I'd guess ok. Plus, recharging will be in the middle of the day or in the evening, not first thing in the morning. I wouldn't be surprised if the bikes were modded to have bigger battery packs but who knows?
  15. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Life is for good friends and great adventures Supporter

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    Not entirely stubborn. My "guess" is based on some existing knowledge of batteries and a solid estimate of heated gear power draw. 20F battery range and 30-40F battery range are likely to be considerably different as the higher temps are much closer to the optimal operating temp for Li cells. Assuming the bike's range to be +- 100 miles, we're talking no more than 3-4 hours of riding. With 100W of heated gear (typical heated vest and grips on max, which is probably more than they would actually use) that's no more than 0.4 KWh from a total battery capacity of 15.4 KWh (or 2.5%, assuming the unlikely case where they had gear on max for an entire 4 hr riding time.) That's trivial in my book. I hadn't considered knobby tires but they would only have a big difference at high speeds, plus the tires on the bike look more like 90/10 style, which are basically street tires. On my dualsport/Adventure touring bikes, even with 50/50 tires, I've always noted better mileage on dirt and gravel roads due to the somewhat lower speeds. We're not talking about wheelspinning in deep mud, which the livewires are not equipped for anyway.
  16. Gestalt

    Gestalt Been here awhile

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    My colleagues in the next factory unit over makes down hole (Oil industry) batteries for down hole measuring equipment and knows a thing or two as regards batteries and while he states yes these temps will have some impact it will be negligible given the tech level of "System" he suspects is involved, his words not mine (Egghead and is sat in my office right now, you know he is an egghead as when I read this out he smiled like it was a complement). Point of reference prior to this guys batteries they formally used a nuclear source to perform many of these same operations, he is no ones fool ?
  17. Brownbear

    Brownbear Been here awhile

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    No more battery lessons. PLEASE.
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  18. RockyDS

    RockyDS Lost in the wilderness

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  19. Rollin'

    Rollin' does it come in black? Supporter

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    Are they using Hippo Hands? In before the merge.
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  20. Norsman

    Norsman ...a GSophile

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    I've never been a part of a more judgmental group/hobby; riders of every kind on every type of bike just have to fix a label to you and put you in a category and treat you accordingly.
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