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Luna cycles Sur-Ron Electric trailbike

Discussion in 'Electric Motorcycles' started by dogsslober, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. dentvet

    dentvet Long timer

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    Hey that is great. which bike was faster on the track, kawi or surry?
  2. HadesOmega

    HadesOmega Been here awhile

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    They are actually very similar in lap times. The Kawasaki is a KLX140 with a big bore kit making it like a 166cc, but everyone calls it a KLX170. The Light Bee is definitely easier to ride and I think it's acceleration is faster. But where the Kawasaki has it, is BRAKING. The KLX beats me up, its like nearly double the weight. The brakes and engine braking/shifting let is slow down much faster so I can get back on the throttle faster. So yeah it's nuts the times are similar but the bikes each have their own strengths and weaknesses. The Light Bee was VERY good at taking the holeshots too. All that drag racing I was doing definitely paid off because I can launch the bee!
    Mikey Boy, Snake Oiler and Ditch like this.
  3. Snake Oiler

    Snake Oiler If the world didn't suck, we would all fall off

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    Yeah I seen the X 260 was the same.

    And dah sorry that is what I meant about changing with a dc-ac charger. I have two 100ah lithium batteries charging with 400w panel aray.
  4. Snake Oiler

    Snake Oiler If the world didn't suck, we would all fall off

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    Thanks I needed that information on the charging. I seen @liberpolly post but wasn't able to refind.
  5. bobfab

    bobfab Long timer Supporter

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    I think it was lost roadie that posted about charging off solar in this thread!
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  6. liberpolly

    liberpolly Lazy rider

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    Here's simple math (ignoring the losses):

    Surron has 60V/32Ah battery, which means 1920 watt-hours.

    Your two 100ah lithium batteries (12V I presume?) have 100*2*12=2400 watt-hours. From a 400W panel it should take 6H to charge, in reality much longer since the power is rated for the optimal angle to the sun, and the sun will not stick in the same spot for 6 hours just for you.

    So charging Sur Ron's battery will use up 80% of your batteries - probably much more due to losses of DC->AC->DC conversions and loss of capacity at low charge of Li batteries, they don't like full discharge.

    Can you afford to use up all your batteries juice to charge the Sur Ron? If yes, fine. If not, you will need to double the size of your solar.
  7. Snake Oiler

    Snake Oiler If the world didn't suck, we would all fall off

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    Well I can't double the watts yet. And using my power doesn't sound like a good idea neither. But I really don't need much for anything else as long as the sun shining and no smoke maybe I need to think about a genny. Just hate noise if I don't have to
  8. liberpolly

    liberpolly Lazy rider

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    Your car engine is already a generator, depending on the rating of the alternator, you can bolt the DC-AC converter to it. Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MF4GD1P
  9. HadesOmega

    HadesOmega Been here awhile

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    Hope you got a beefy generator I can charge my lite speed battery at 1 amp with my 450watt inverter and it feel like the charging system on the van is not happy.
  10. HadesOmega

    HadesOmega Been here awhile

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  11. Snake Oiler

    Snake Oiler If the world didn't suck, we would all fall off

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    Most vehicle charging system are NOT going to handle that for very long. They just don't need to charge at higher levels other than at the start up. I can't remember what I read in a RV site about it but it's something like 5-10amp on a steady rate of change when towing. Might even be lower than the 5amp. But there's specific alternators that can handle much higher rates, boats are one application they are used in. Big bucks too I'm sure. So I don't think I'll be attacking the change that way. Genny or solar while boonedocking I guess.
  12. HadesOmega

    HadesOmega Been here awhile

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    Oh I'm sure there are some very heavy duty alternators. When I was in the Army the HMMWVs could charge another HMMWV with these huge jumper cables called slave cables. They even had an inverter that could power a communications shelter, it could run everything but the big honkin air conditioner it had.

    Also they have these plugin hybrid vehicles now that have these powerful inverters that run off the hybrid battery and you could probably run a microwave and tv off of it.
  13. Snake Oiler

    Snake Oiler If the world didn't suck, we would all fall off

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    I'm familiar with some of the things the military was or construction. But those aren't the run or the mill stuff that I can afford or most others. Always a option though.
  14. SteveAZ

    SteveAZ Long timer

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    A pair of headlights alone take as much as 15A... point being the rest of the lighting and everything else is going to be plenty more than 5-10A so I don't think that's terribly accurate

    Seems intuitive however... that most car alternators aren't expected to do 40-50+A for continuous usage...
  15. Snake Oiler

    Snake Oiler If the world didn't suck, we would all fall off

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    I'm sure you are right @SteveAZ but as far as charging a trailer circuit while in town. It's probably less. But as you said, there's no way it would last long charging at higher rates. I'm going to guess that the new vehicle charging system is even less with everything being LEDs now a days. Probably one of the reasons the larger vehicle have two batteries to store more power.

    There's no way I would think about trying to change a Sur-Ron from a vehicle and risking trashing it.
  16. smdub

    smdub Been here awhile

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    Modern alternators are getting bigger, not smaller. More and more stuff has gone electric (quite literally everything but the traction effort.) Lights 15A, Defrost is 10-15A. Fans, Electric power steer, electric water pump, electric AC compressor, etc. 50A at idle is prob typ output for a car w/ a 120A alternator. Large vehicles (like my diesel F350) have two batteries to be able to crank the engine when cold.
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  17. liberpolly

    liberpolly Lazy rider

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    Not sure why argue when you can just look up the alternator rating for your vehicle from the specs :)
  18. smdub

    smdub Been here awhile

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    Car specs don't list the idle speed alternator current. My van has a "220A alt" but thats spec'ed at something like 6500rpm. Would likely be about half that near idle but impossible to know exactly w/o the alternator spec sheet. You also have to take into account the reduced cooling while stopped and fan cycling at idle. Not many vehicles have an idle-up switch or are going to but a brick on the pedal for an hour either.

    Edit: FWIW, I have ~5kWh of lead-acid batts sitting here to be installed in my van. Have 500W of solar for the roof. Will charge the SurRon and the kids 2kWh electric Oset w/ it.
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  19. NatetheNewbie

    NatetheNewbie TAT-Tested, Mother Approved

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    Who here has experience with aftermarket controllers and batteries?

    I put a 64 tooth sprocket on my SurRonX and it really helps for the technical trail riding I use it for. However, I could still use both more power and more top speed. I don't want so much that it eliminates the playful character of the bike. I have a CA plate on it but it's really just a stealth dirt bike for me to ride in the Oakland Hills when I can't get out to the woods on my YZ300X.

    I'm looking for maybe 50% more power than the current 64 tooth sprocket, and a top speed of around 45 mph (vs the 34 mph with the 64t). Being able to 'reshape' the throttle mapping would also be handy.

    Would a BAC4000 and 72V 32AH battery achieve this? Any recommendations?
  20. liberpolly

    liberpolly Lazy rider

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    So by my math, it should take at least 10 hours of direct, zenith sun to charge the batteries, which in the real world means "never"? Or are you going to charge them from the alternator and top up with the solar?

    I have never run high current inverter from the car motor, but wouldn't the ECU just increase the idle speed to compensate for high draw on the alternator?

    I keep bringing it up because I've seen a few people getting bitterly disappointed in electric bikes when the problem is really upstream.
    Snake Oiler likes this.