Luna cycles Sur-Ron Electric trailbike

Discussion in 'Electric Motorcycles' started by dogsslober, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. NatetheNewbie

    NatetheNewbie TAT-Tested, Mother Approved

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    Nice holeshots! What has your experience been with the BAC4000? Any reliability or usability concerns? I'm curious if it's worth the upgrade without going to a 72V battery.

    If I can get half again the power and a bit more top speed (currently at 34, would like to see ~40mph) I'll be happy.
  2. HadesOmega

    HadesOmega Been here awhile

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    I have had a BAC2000 and BAC4000 and the BAC4000 is noticeably faster than the BAC2000. The power comes on right away. The 2k the power is more like a 2 stroke, it takes a while to get that power. As far as setup is concerned, I have been tuning this bike for almost a whole year. I've put many frustrating hours getting it to run the way I want it to. But as you can see it has paid off because I'm just stomping on other bikes now.

    The Lite Speed Battery is soooo good. The weakest link in the Light bee to begin with is the battery. I've overheated it so many times, this Lite Speed Battery is amazing, it's taken everything I've thrown at it. It's so good I'm ready to sell my 60V battery and charger and X Controller and get another 72V battery. The range is better too, I was able to do 49miles with the lite speed battery at bicycle lane speeds. The 60V battery you'll get anywhere between 30-40miles.

    When I rode the Cake bike I liked it a lot but I liked the lighteness of the Light Bee. If I had the power of the Cake bike and the handling of the Light bee that is what I want and with the BAC4k/Litespeed setup it gives me that. It's literally twice as much power. I can't even imagine how powerful the 8k is. With the field weakening jacked up, you should be able to hit 40mph. I have a 60t sprocket and I can hit 40 with my 2K. I don't even think i need the 60t sprocket anymore the power is much with the stock sprocket.
  3. NatetheNewbie

    NatetheNewbie TAT-Tested, Mother Approved

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    Thanks Hades. Is the throttle mapping configurable with the BAC4000?
  4. HadesOmega

    HadesOmega Been here awhile

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    You can adjust the max power output and the motor current the throttle gives. For whatever reason the eco and sport mode don't work anymore so I usually keep it at max power.
  5. NatetheNewbie

    NatetheNewbie TAT-Tested, Mother Approved

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    Thanks. I appreciate you sharing your experience. It sounds as though you can't adjust the throttle curve itself. e.g. the Nucular controller appears to allow you to control the curve of the throttle mapping, which is one of my (very minor) gripes with the Sur Ron when doing low speed, trials-y riding. But I can probably get over it.
  6. RonSJC

    RonSJC Long timer Supporter

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    I'm very interested in this conversation. I have a '10 Ford Transit connect and it looks like it's stock with a 150 Amp Alternator, but I did a quick search and for about $300 I can get one that has 250 amps. It would be great to charge off the van driving to the next trail. Has anyone actually charged off a converter and the alternator? Just got my bike this week and looking for options.
    sur.jpg
  7. liberpolly

    liberpolly Lazy rider

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    As somebody correctly mentioned above, check the alternator ratings specifically at the idle speed.
  8. liberpolly

    liberpolly Lazy rider

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    Later today saw on Facebook a post from a guy who charges his Sur Ron from his truck's built-in 800W inverter.
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  9. mrmxrfxr

    mrmxrfxr n00b

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    The closest humanity has come yet to Superman flying just a few feet over any terrain.

    I ride an XR400 in Colorado, with much of it in the Rampart Range area. Tight, gravelly mountain trails in a pine forest with big rocks and roots thrown in for spice. With my 14 yo son on an XR100, we can ride the intermediate levels all day. We stay away from the difficult ones.... just too gnarly. We've been out many times this summer so in decent riding shape and recent trail knowledge.

    After much research and hand wringing, got a SurRon X last Thursday. Took it out to Rampart this morning.

    The feeling is of almost flying along the forest floor. This is the future.

    Here's a brain dump of observations and thoughts, info that I'd want to know if curious.

    - stock bike except wire-snip power boost (https://electricbike.com/forum/foru...fications-adjustments-tips-tricks#post74759); this is a requried mod, changes the bike to what you'd hope/expect; btw, that whole forum thread is a gold mine of info, many thanks to them
    - upgraded bash plate; required for my type of rocky riding; already had to use it at least once
    - swapped left/right levers so rear brake is on the right; a lifetime of muscle memory is a terrible thing to waste
    - wore same gear as for XR400: boots, armor, helmet, misc, no water
    - I'm about 5'11, 180-185 lbs in riding gear

    - bike weight makes the biggest difference and is at the heart of most of how this improves on the ICE mx experience
    - no clutch, no gears, no stalling; so much simpler to ride, kinda frees the mind to focus on other things
    - no noise (ok, very little); can't overstate how this aspect really emphasizes the feeling of flying; although I can hear the chain/motor buzzing, I'm sure with my helmet off the wind in my ears would cover it
    - rides/feels like a solid mountain bike
    - the weight of a much-heavier ICE bike has the positive effect of its momentum smoothing out the ride since smaller obstacles don't affect it as much as the lighter SurRon; it also help carry you thru and over obstacles; this explains why the SurRon rides most like a nice mountain bike, not an ICE bike
    - lighter weight means when I needed traction or to ensure the back tire wouldn't spin, sitting on the seat is required; standing was fun to ride but sitting was sometimes more practical, but still way fun nonetheless
    - ride is a bit small and bike-like, I had bought taller handlebars but got the wrong size so I rode with stock; that will have to change
    - with more feedback from the trail making it to my hands, more cushioning is needed; got pretty tingly sometimes
    - I finally started to understand how whoops can be fun and not so phucking annoying lol
    - power delivery was nice, went up plenty of steep, twisty, gravelly chutes (my faves), dodging ruts, roots and baby heads.... and if I needed the power, the throttle always delivered; this was my main concern overall and my big smile gives the verdict
    - more or less went the same speeds as on the XR400... average 12-15mph in the thick of it
    - compared to XR400, could go faster over some things, like whoops
    - it's slower, though, on things like deep gravel; bicycle handling in this stuff sucks, front end is very slippery; maybe I can buy a better tire, easier than me becoming a better rider

    - mental perk: the combo of much lighter, enough power and lower seat height really made me feel safer, more in control; deep down, the fear of me and my 300lb hot, gasoline-filled iron beast tumbling down a rocky hillside together is a bit haunting; or even one of those slow motion fall overs can be serious when done in the most inconvenient of places where human bone is the weakest link
    - this overall makes the rides much more enjoyable and given how easy it is to turn it around, even in tight places, and how I can pick it up and over stuff, and near instant stop/start.... seems to be fewer ways for me to get into an optionless, difficult situation
    - loading/unloading, especially when tired from the ride, is a friggin godsend... the ride itself is the most physically demanding part, the way it should be; loading and unloading is damn-near a one-hand affair, very bicycle-ish and a significan perk
    - I do notice that my thighs feel like jelly, must be using muscles differently, as well

    - started at 100% battery, went 22.7 miles total, down to 8% battery; rode about 3 hrs with a 15 min break and a couple of photo op stops
    - didn't notice any power loss until about 20%
    - after 15%, drops off quickly and noticeably weaker, though would still get me up steep inclines but needed full throttle
    - also note that the SurRon has a 'regular' and 'sport' mode toggled via left thumb switch, which you can do while riding
    - I rode it in sport mode until about 75% battery remaining and a little over 7 miles ridden
    - afterwards, as an experiment, I would leave it in regular mode, which was just fine for large parts of the ride, but when I need more juice, flick it into sport mode and back to regular when not needed; I did this for the remainder of the ride
    - very unscientific, and I don't know if it made any difference to battery life, but would sure like to know
    - this influences my thought to get a slightly larger rear sprocket; right now max speed is 50mph, which on a vehicle this size/weight, is plenty for me; I'd gladly trade 5mph top speed for more grunt on the low end; even 40mph on those trails is far beyond my skill
    - this might allow me to use regular mode more often since it'd raise the bar as to when I'd need the battery hungry sport mode
    - I've read some don't like the brake regen and prefer to coast when off-throttle; for my riding, I liked it since it gives a similar effect as engine braking, and is useful when going down steep inclines without having to ride the brake the whole time.... and basically all the other things engine braking is good for

    My upcoming upgrades, prioritized:
    - taller handlebars
    - cushion grips, padded gloves
    - little bigger back sprocket; give up 5mph top end for more low end grunt
    - wider foot pegs
    - 21" front tire; should help smooth the ride a bit
    - gimme a minute, I'll think of more...

    Up until now, the only way to get whatever *it* is that I like about riding (freedom and flying over the terrain), an ICE bike was the only option. Take it or leave it, so I took it. Although a bit different than what I'm used to and maybe not apples to apples, the SurRon solves many of the issues of ICE bikes (noise, weight, complexity, etc.) and this translates into a better way to get that *it* in a much improved fashion. This includes my perception of safety because of the added sense of control.

    20201004_01.jpg

    20201004_02.jpg
    I already have too many ICE bikes and need to offload some. This puts that effort into high gear ;-)
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  10. mrmxrfxr

    mrmxrfxr n00b

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    link?
  11. NatetheNewbie

    NatetheNewbie TAT-Tested, Mother Approved

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    great summary - thanks for sharing! sounds like a great ride! Definitely go up on the sprocket and you'll be happy with the added torque.

    After riding the sur ron exclusively for several weeks I just got back on my YZ300X for a mountain single track ride. Keep in mind, this is a 220lbs 50 hp rekluse'd purpose-built machine. It felt heavy and difficult to control!

    I still think I prefer my ICE machine slightly to the sur ron, just based on the suspension and overall capability. But I'm having so much fun riding the sur ron that i could almost imagine a future without an ICE!
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  12. liberpolly

    liberpolly Lazy rider

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    It's a closed group - Sur Ron owners USA - and I lost the sight of the post.
  13. woodsrider-boyd

    woodsrider-boyd Wow, these guys are fast

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    Congrats on the Sur Ron. Great right up.

    You will add greatly reduced maintenance, almost none to your list. One of the things I LOVE about my Alta. Don’t own a Sur Ron, but the maintenance would be similar to the Alta.
  14. RonSJC

    RonSJC Long timer Supporter

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    Might be here. I think someplace it linked to a video and if I'm not mistaken he has a after market charger he could dial back the amps to get it to charge, otherwise it trips the inverter.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/surron/permalink/1410133352527791

    As much has I had listening to a generator, I think I'll invest in one.
    I've researched the solar thing, and while that will work, I think it would just take too long to charge. I'd like to be able to ride back to my van, put it on some kind of generator while taking a break, and head back out on the trails.

    I'm about 150 lbs and I tested EP mode on some bike trails (mostly paved, about 20% dirt) by the house and I think I can get close to 40 miles on a charge. Power mode is fun, but it eats power.
  15. liberpolly

    liberpolly Lazy rider

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    The idea is to slow charge the stationary batteries from the solar, and when you need it, they can charge your bike really fast.
  16. mrmxrfxr

    mrmxrfxr n00b

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    thanks for the link/info fellas... I forgot that I don't have a FB acct so no love there for me; post screenshots of the site, pls lol

    update since my last post:

    - forgot to mention that charging from 8% took about 3 hrs on a home outlet; about as long as the ride itself
    - added taller handlebars, much more comfy; highly recommended; make sure you get 1-1/4in, 31.8mm bars!! only awesome dudes buy the wrong size and get to wait even longer for comfort, so of course that's what I did
    - wider footpegs; aftermarket.... serious mofo to install, had to bust out the welder on this sumbitch; an underrated upgrade, did the same on my ICE bikes long ago and was surprised at the improvement so it's standard for me now
    - removed brake kill switches; not sure of the long term effect but I like fewer wires cluttering things up and more failure points removed; easy peasy, took less than 10 mins; watched youtube vids first to get lined out
    - note about brake kill switches: the hollow bolt that the wires run thru is 7mm, an odd size indeed; wanted to plug the hole and didn't have a 7mm bolt (need 2 of them) so put in a 6mm and used the set screw to hold it; kinda half-assed but better than an open hole to collect crud; Ace hardware is close by and has all kinds of hard to find stuff; a rubber plug or squirt of silicone would work, too
    - kick stand switch is still a good idea, at least for now; leaving it on
    - put on hand guards; with my skills and the way I ride, those are semi-consumables and I usually have an extra pair always on hand (hehe); I figure these might last much longer since they have to absorb much less weight when I test them
    - hand guards also make it look more motorcycle-like, kinda tough and cool, so it suits me fine ;-)
    - foam grips, just like on my ICE bikes; don't know why these aren't more popular, great grip, comfy cushioning, easy to put on

    regarding recharging while not on the grid....

    - much depends on whether you need to be able to top if off for a day, a couple of days, or more; how accessible will you be to the grid?
    - solar is cool, but much depends on several things lining up: weather, location, size of panels, size of battery bank, etc.; for me, I'd try it as a secondary/supplementary source
    - my use tends to be day-longs with a need to top off once or twice; ride, take a break and recharge, then ride some more, like RonSJC does
    - sometimes we camp for a day or two, so being able to ride a couple of full days with no access to the grid is the issue to solve
    - extra battery is $1600... ZOIKS!!
    - for that kinda scratch, I'm thinking the Honda 2200W quiet gen is the way to go, ~$1000; plenty for surron recharge and of course for camping, the juice is very welcome in general; minimal noise is nice
    - there are cheaper gen options but the idea is the same

    also, my son is keen on us having two of these bad boys and it's likely to happen; a gen in that case is even more useful to keep two topped off

    good chance I will go ride the trails this weekend but regardless, the following weekend if the weather holds; will go and report back
  17. bobfab

    bobfab Long timer Supporter

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    Great summary it's posts like that that have me adding one to the cart every couple days! Haven't pulled the trigger yet
  18. RonSJC

    RonSJC Long timer Supporter

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    The Sur-ron stock light is not bad! Night stealth ride. 6268E7E8-FCCE-400E-918B-2477EDDFD8DE_1_201_a.jpeg
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  19. BlueHeart

    BlueHeart Long timer

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    Don't waste your money on the Fisher Fab light. Might be ok on a pedal bike, but I was outrunning the light pretty easily.
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  20. Mikey Boy

    Mikey Boy Been here awhile

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    I'm ordering one today. Fuggit
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