Making of the 10HP Diesel Prime Mover

Discussion in 'Some Assembly Required' started by danielson, Jul 11, 2010.

  1. Sibbo

    Sibbo Been here awhile

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    One of the things that surprised and pleased me was seeing NO ,ZERO black smoke in the video as the bike pulled away from a stop .This was one of the things I was worrying about when thinkingof doing this myself .Those little diesels are set up to run at a constant speed powering industrial machinery , so I thought the variations in speed required on a bike might prove a problem .

    I was wrong ! I love it when I'm wrong ! :clap:clap
    #41
  2. Kwakanine

    Kwakanine Kawasaki Z'ds, BMW Oilheads,

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    I saw an Enfield diesel in India and always thought there must be potential. This is great - really impressed. Be great to hear it running - video? Thanks for the thread.
    #42
  3. danielson

    danielson Adventurer

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    No probs.

    Sort of like a Boss Hoss, they got a 2spd auto I think? (thats like a Powerglide trans)

    Yeah thats the one Sibbo made a link to. I bought one of them. You can do that; get a diesel pump and sell off the parts, keep the motor





    Sibbo thanks

    What kind of Enfield is it, lemme guess mid 90s 4 speed 500? If 4spd is the gbox right side shift?

    Charles Altmanns page is good too. He used the extended mainshaft, footpeg rest and Taurus inner primary in his build.




    Thanks Welsh Paul. I'll remember that:D If it hits 5000k no probs it should be fine for more




    :D

    Sibbo yeah its pretty clean colour wise. Black smoke in a Diesel is overfueling which is very bad for the engine and can lead to seizures if continued.

    I didn't change any fuel settings and it seems to be running great at all rpms





    Kwakanine thanks mate no worries:D

    Check at the top of page 3, the video should be there
    #43
  4. Sibbo

    Sibbo Been here awhile

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    Yep ,the standard 4 speed 500 ,a beaut little bike .I thought about doing your thing for a while and even contacted a bloke in NSW who had done it , but he had fun registering it , engineers certificate etc . He was an engineer so that kind of made his job easier but it would be harder for me ! I could register in Qld though , I've got relatives up there that would cooperate !

    The Altmann mods with the longer shaft looked a bit of trouble , very impressed that you were able to do it so simply .I guess you don't know until it's all off and you can line up the holes .:wink:

    Was there any way to include the electric start ? I see the downtube is in the way and the sacred compliance plate !!! but could a nice big steel plate with the correct opening have been welded on there to accept the starter ?

    Altmann or someone else raised a question about the charging capacity of the alternator windings on these clones .I think the original Yamaha was better , have you had any problems running your lights ? I guess an external alternator could be rigged ,but a bit of a job !!!!!

    And again , a sweet , sweet job !! I'm all inspired again . :clap
    #44
  5. raycam01_au

    raycam01_au Sir Ray!

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    wow
    is all i can say wat an awesome little bike, love it, gr8 work, :freaky
    #45
  6. danielson

    danielson Adventurer

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    Hey Sibbo

    Thanks mate:D

    Yeah I've heard about the holes you have to go through to get it rego'd in NSW. That sucks.

    I was thinking how to make it work with e-start but like you said involves a frame chop and compliance plate movement. Though I reckon you could get away with it depends if the plate is closer to the down tube stud hole.

    I have thought if the motor was lower might give enough room, but it looks like there is no chance without cutting the down tube.

    I've still got to get charging stuff sorted. Running constant loss:D

    On Altmanns site he says he made a four parts voltage regulator (using a rectifier, zenerdiode, resistor and a darlington transistor) in place of the supplied regulator with motor which was too weak. Here's a schematic

    [​IMG]

    I'll probably give this a go. I'll see. It'll be interesting.



    Thanks Ray mate

    It is a great machine:D
    #46
  7. Sibbo

    Sibbo Been here awhile

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    I'd love to hear how you go with the charging system , I'll stay subscribed .

    Good luck mate !
    #47
  8. wiggywildwildwest

    wiggywildwildwest cranky bugger

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    it may be a lot less mucking around to use a motorbike reg from a wrecker. see which ones there's lots of. ( hopefully means they don't play up. ) the wiring of them is easy too. i can assist via the internerds if you require.

    i used rgv250 rec/regs on a couple of bikes. worked well and were 30-ish bucks from memory.
    #48
  9. desert dog

    desert dog scrub basher

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    :huh WTF somebody knows whats going on, series regulator...:clap
    heaps better than 20 year old technolgy, motor cycle shunt regulator!!! :puke1
    SCR are just sooooo yesterday.

    good on you and ya brother ..... :thumb

    cheers matty

    edit; try wacking in a couple of filter caps to smooth out voltage spikes.
    #49
  10. danielson

    danielson Adventurer

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    wiggy cheers for that i'll see to it



    DD thanks mate,
    thats the smart Altmann chap who made that schematic

    hmm now there's a few ways to do this

    Update; not much riding but got 1000km on it now. Running well.
    #50
  11. PBee

    PBee ...---...

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    Go to the Guru, Steve Warnes

    http://www.bettabikes.com/

    He's down at Hackam.

    Anything related to bike electrics.:thumb
    #51
  12. dzl

    dzl adventurer wannabe

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    Cool bike....well done. Have always had an interest in diesel powered machinery and have always wanted to screw a diesel bike together. Hell...even my dog is called diesel! You've got me thinking about it again now as I have a '51 BSA B33 sitting down in the shed!

    Regards the electrics, do they give a rating for the generator? It wont matter what sort of regulator you have if the generator isnt capable. A lot of those clones only have the capacity to charge the battery from what I had heard. The genuine yanmar engines have a 15A option if going to power auxillary equipment.

    Would any of these regulators help? http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffyelectrex.htm

    Although this would blow the budget a bit more and defeat the whole purpose of the project.....have you seen this engine made by kohler http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/productDetail.htm?productNumber=KD425-2

    Relatively new design 18.8 HP 850cc twin and is the same weight and outer dimensions as the yanmar 10HP and its clones! Would be enough power to take the bike out of the novelty category and turn it into a genuine cruiser. What you think?
    #52
  13. FatBoyCrash

    FatBoyCrash Buckle up SpankY!!

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    You sly dog!!!
    Holy crap your a suprise package!! What next next??? Wanna help design a self energising ignition for my airhead??

    :D:D:D

    #53
  14. FatBoyCrash

    FatBoyCrash Buckle up SpankY!!

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    Ooooohhh... nice link!

    I'm tipping this one. Bit lighter and simpler. Wonder how it'd go on SVO 'though???

    http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/productDetail.htm?productNumber=KD420

    The diesel bike boffins use like a centrifugal/cvr style go kart clutch thing. Fairly easy to source. I'm stuffed if I can find it now!! Anyone??

    #54
  15. BikePilot

    BikePilot Long timer

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    Thanks for all the info! I really like what you've done. I do suspect there's more power to be had if you can increase the upper limit of the fuel pump volume. Most mechanical diesel pumps have a screw somewhere that allows adjusting fuel flow (even if you can't adjust timing). It basically allows the "throttle" to open further. Get too carried away and you'll melt pistons and make a ton of black smoke, but usually there's a whole lot of room between oem settings and piston melting settings. You could fit a mechanical pyrometer if you really want to get fancy. I'm not sure what a max temp would be for that engine. For an old ford diesel truck engine its best to stay below 1200 deg F.

    btw my experience comes from fiddling with old diesel trucks, I don't know anything specific about your motor. Principle should be the same though.

    Turbos do work great on diesels, you'd still need to find a way to get more fuel into the motor to really take advantage of it. You might even pick up a tiny bit more efficiency too.

    for production concerns and a gearbox, you might consider a salsbury (sp?) clutch like a snowmobile uses. I had an 8hp (stock rated power anyway) 360cc go-cart/buggy that used one. Worked great. Its basically two conical pullies with a big heavy belt and the cones slide in and out with rpm and load such that the gear ratio constantly changes - basically like a CVT. It could be a really cheap, simple way of getting power to the rear wheel. Don't know what the maximum gear range would be or how efficient they are.

    I know my go-cart would top out at about 45mph (I think it was limited by gearing and max rpm governor), but it'd snap off the line really hard (overall gearing was quite low). Engine rpm (stock form at least) was governed to 3600.
    it used something like this
    http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200322170_200322170
    http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_35770_35770
    #55
  16. FatBoyCrash

    FatBoyCrash Buckle up SpankY!!

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    #56
  17. danielson

    danielson Adventurer

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    Thanks PBee




    Thanks dzl. That B33 could be a good candidate. That's the OHV 500cc? If its got matching eng, frame numbers then I would keep it together

    There's no rating for the genny, but I've asked the sellers to see if they know.

    I've had a look at those regs on the Brit bike site, they have been recommended on the Dieselbike forum somewhere.

    Those Kohler motors would be great, they are the same as a Ruggerini MD191, bore stroke all the same. Price is another concern new they are $4000 or so, but obviously second hand would be the go from a pump or something.

    Someones inserted one in an Enfield too. Called the Ruggerfield:D

    [​IMG]

    Builder Colin Clarke

    [​IMG]

    Build photo

    [​IMG]

    Looks like the down tube has to be cut.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Owner Stuart says it can hit 70-75mph and gets 90mpg Imp. 31.71 km/liter. 3.1 per 100km





    Bikepilot thanks.

    I've read some have tried to adjust the volume of fuel, but they ended up saying the factory settings were correct as there was too much black smoke.

    Turbos have been installed on these single cyl Diesels with varying results, some say not worth it, best to have more cylinders like 3.

    Sounds great that gokart you had:D

    I did think about CVTs but then I can't live with out a clutch lever so had to stay with the stock gearbox:1drink



    FatBoy
    I think comet is still in business. Their site is working
    #57
  18. overlandr

    overlandr Dystopist

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    Are there any small Common rail engines in the size range of 10-20hp?
    #58
  19. bumblebee1

    bumblebee1 All bikes are dirt bikes

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    #59
  20. MODNROD

    MODNROD Pawn of Petty Tyrants

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    Has anybody else noticed that those Comet belt variators look a lot like a really basic scooter set-up?

    Is it only me who's just realised the Kohler420 is within 10% of the Vespa 250GTS engine output?

    Just saying is all.........:wink:
    #60