making your own paperwork for a motorcycle?

Discussion in 'Latin America' started by jebusone, Jun 1, 2017.

  1. jebusone

    jebusone n00b

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    hola.
    i’m reading and hearing about making your own paperwork for a motorcycle. i have a bike that i bought in nicaragua with all the powers of attorney to sell, cross borders to honduras, el salvador and guatemala. it seems that other countries as costa rica or mexico need a permiso de salir. kind of complicated…
    so i was thinking: i’m going home to europe and will return in a few months. so i heard about bringing a licence plate from europe (maybe even from my motorcycle) and fake the paperwork.
    i figure that nobody in central or south america can control that the bike isn't registered in europe. this way i would be free to drive anywhere without caring about permisos de salir or anything...
    or am i missing a point?
    what about inssurance issues?
    or do you need some import papers saying that the bike was brought to nicaragua or whereever?
    does anyone have experience with this?
    #1
  2. CommanderDave

    CommanderDave Kick Ass Adventure Rider

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    Well.....my buddy had his bike in his name (Oregon Title) but didn't bring original title. He had his wife scan it in color and email to him. He then color printed it. It worked until we got to Costa Rica. They impounded bike. He then had to have wife mail title down. Bottom line....A week to resolve and about $400 USD in fees. It's your adventure....make it a good one....dave
    #2
  3. flei

    flei cycletherapist

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    So..... you are going to rely on the immigration agents at the borders being stupid and that the jails in Central America are very accommodating to European forgers....
    #3
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  4. markharf

    markharf Been here awhile

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    Some borders are more lackadaisical than others when it comes to paperwork. I will admit to having traveled on faked papers a time or two, but I also recollect being caught out at least twice. On both occasions I had the genuine papers with me, which was a resoundingly good thing.

    Central America is the wrong place to try this, IMHO--a lot of borders, a smattering of very, very alert border agents, and a great many gringo motorcyclists on whom they can hone their skills. Genuine paperwork from the States, Canada or EU tends to have a lot of obvious and maybe not-so-obvious anti-theft features.

    Hope that's helpful.

    Mark
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  5. TeeVee

    TeeVee His mudda was a mudda!

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    love to read about people losing money/time/property as a result of trying to beat the system. validates my own method of following the rules when i'm not on my home turf.

    back in april, a person with the same name posted a question on the HUBB about buying a bike in nica as a foreigner. i responded and said it was not allowed. guess he figured he knew better. even though i live there part time i couldn't put any vehicle in my name until i got residency.

    now he wants info on how to beat the law in a different way. go figure!

    not that the OP will listen, but for the benefit of others that may read and have similar questions, when you try to leave nica with a foreign plated vehicle, the not always so stupid folks from aduanas will want to see your import paperwork. i guess you could fake that as well.

    best of luck and let me know if you need a good criminal lawyer in nicaragua!
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  6. jebusone

    jebusone n00b

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    TeeVee. i'm in el salvador with a bike i bought in nicaragua. everything legal. get your facts straight instead of spreading wrong infomation. powers of attorneys do the trick... great for you that you lived there but couldn't get the easiest things working for you...
    #6
  7. jebusone

    jebusone n00b

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    don't let fear guide you.
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  8. markharf

    markharf Been here awhile

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    OP, crossing borders using a poder is one thing; faking paperwork is another. Doing the latter you might succeed, but then again you surely might not. If you go ahead and try the forged-paperwork-fake-plate thing, be sure to come back here and say how it went for you.

    In the meantime, you may note that TeeVee is describing two scenarios, both of which are very different from what you've apparently done.

    Safe journeys,

    Mark
    #8
  9. jebusone

    jebusone n00b

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    yes i'm seeing your point and i'm not too stupid to take advice. that's the point of asking isn't it...
    but TeeVee who gave me wrong information in the first place about not being able to buy a bike in nica is acting as if he knows everything. not cool.
    #9
  10. TeeVee

    TeeVee His mudda was a mudda!

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    some people....

    here is a direct quote of my response to this turkey on the HUBB:

    "welcome to the hubb. you cannot register a bike in nicaragua without residency. foreign plated bikes are not common. best place to buy in central america is guatemala, where foreigners can register vehicles without residency."

    "in theory it could be done, if your friend gave you a "poder" basically a letter drafted by an attorney with all sorts of silly seals, that specifically grants you the power to transport the bike cross border. this should work, but you can expect to have more than the usual problems/stress at borders. insurance would have to be in the registered owner's name. bike insurance in nica costs $50 per year and you can only buy annual policies. you will need to buy insurance in each country which may present a problem since you are not the owner, but i can't speak to that with any certainty."

    now you're here asking for advice on breaking the law. good luck and as mark says, be sure to let us know how forgery works out for you.....
    #10
  11. jebusone

    jebusone n00b

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    sorry dude. didn't recall what you said. peace out. and thanks for your advice...
    #11
  12. Cal

    Cal Long timer

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    you would need a Nicaraguan temporary import permit for the bike with all the European information (plate and Vin) on it showing that you brought the bike into the country legally. This would be dated and have an expiry date of 30/90 days? So you have a lot of hurdles to cross. Where would you get the official paper work for Nic and the stamps in your passport to match the dates on the importation(fake)
    #12
  13. flei

    flei cycletherapist

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  14. stewacide

    stewacide Been here awhile

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    Can someone explain how one would be 'caught' with fake papers?

    I'm in South America with a Canadian plated and registered bike in my name I've ridden down. I plan to sell it to another traveler in two or three months. I would have assumed the buyer would be best off with a photoshopped ownership with his name on it (handing off in no-mans land), since the only thing tying me to the bike on the way down has been that ownership paper and it's literally just a piece of paper. It's never seemed like they've given it more than a glance, and literally every time I've had to tell them what country the ownership is from since it doesn't say (just the province) and they're just taking my word for it.

    So long as it's well printed on fancy paper how could they possibly know?
    #14
  15. markharf

    markharf Been here awhile

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    Well....I've used fake paperwork myself more than once in my life. I've gotten away with it. But I've also been called out twice by officials who recognized that what I was showing them was not real. Both times I had the genuine documents with me, tucked away in my baggage. On long trips I have a habit of using watermarked, linen paper to make color copies which I then laminate or paint with clear map sealer. I use my fakes throughout my trip, and they get beat up and battered and can hardly be read by the time I return home. If they're stolen or refused, I can revert to the real thing.

    People can tell real from fake, if they care to. I don't know about your documents, but my government-issue registrations, licenses and titles all have anti-forgery features built in--foils and colored bands and watermarks, bits that don't register on scanners and therefore don't copy, etc. The time I remember most clearly was crossing from Romania into Ukraine, and the border guard hardly even glanced at my high-quality copy before sneering and dismissing me. I doubt he'd even seen a Washington State registration before, but he didn't have to work very hard to know that mine wasn't real.

    YMMV, of course. But it's a good idea to consider likely outcomes if you get caught. You haven't had to think too carefully about that, because your papers are genuine. The guy you sell to at the end of your trip won't have that luxury. And you have no way of knowing whether fake papers would have gotten you through Central America, which as I said above is one of the places where they really do know a lot about North American documents.

    Oh, and I've also used fake papers with NO genuine documents for backup. It's a bit nerve-wracking, but it's worked out for me so far.

    Mark
    #15
  16. bananaman

    bananaman transcontimental

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    Copies of your own bike's papers are completely different from documents forged to look like documents that don't actually exist.

    I regularly use copies. Copies for everything. Depending on circumstances, I have the originals with me, or at home where a trusted person can overnight (or as close to overnight as possible) them to me.

    The outright forgery penalty is, at a minimum, loss of motorcycle. It can quickly get worse, with the kind of solution being hefty bribes, if you're lucky, to hefty fines and jail time.

    I'm not adding my $.02 for the OP, because he's obviously a lost cause to even consider this. He doesn't care that buying foreign motorcycles on the grey market just makes it harder for law abiding people.

    If you're a law abiding person, don't even consider buying a bike on the grey market unless you do ALL your homework and you can do it legally.
    #16
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  17. CCjon

    CCjon Gypsy Rider Supporter

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    I don't always agreed with B-man, but in this instance he is absolutely 100% right.
    Color laminated copies of legal documents is one thing. Forging documents is illegal in every country in the world. Why would you want to risk spending time in a foreign jail to save a few dollars?

    So little gain for such a big risk... Big gain and little risk is smart, Little gain and BIG risk is stupid.
    #17
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  18. bananaman

    bananaman transcontimental

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    Quoted for posterity because when CCJon says he doesn't usually agree with me
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  19. bananaman

    bananaman transcontimental

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    I remember one time, at Jama, at the argentine customs/immigration, an Argentinian kid had an Oregon (US) plated bike that he wanted to ride into Chile. The Argentinian officials were on the internet tapping into Oregon Department of Transportation Motor Vehicles Registration. Apparently there's this thing called a Treaty where different countries have access to certain data bases for this kind of purpose. It didn't take the officials very long to figure out that the motorcycle wasn't stolen. They also did a quick background check on the previous US owner. They could see when he entered Argentina, that he entered with the motorcycle, that the motorcycle was still in the legal TIP, the original owner left Argentina, etc. The Argentinian kid's story matched up with what the Argentina Customs verified. Then they went outside to check the VIN. Everything worked out. I don't know what happened on the other end, because it's a hundred miles to Chile customs in San Pedro de Atacama. I'd say chances are even, 50/50, that Chile let him in, didn't let him in, or seized the motorcycle.
    #19
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  20. youngforever

    youngforever Adventurer

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