Martin's VTR 1000 Adventure Sidecar Build

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by m_cliffhanger, Nov 4, 2016.

  1. m_cliffhanger

    m_cliffhanger Momentary Lapses of Reason

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  2. SQD8R

    SQD8R Eat squids and be merry

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    Toured the East Coast of Canada on a VTR, same colour. Loved it, never should have traded it in.
  3. Pete-NZ

    Pete-NZ Long timer

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    I imagine a trials sidecar would use quite small rose joints...
    both my leaner units use 3/4" UNF moly rose joints as the main
    pivots & 12mm steel for the lean limiter they never give any issues..

    I do carry a spare of each just in case...




    .
  4. L_Bomb

    L_Bomb Strewth and blimey

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    The problem with rose joints is that they work perfectly fine until they fail catastrophically. There is generally no sign they are about to let go.

    An early lesson as a mechanical engineer in the Formula Student competition is that you don't use rose joints on suspension components. One of the judges has a passion for this.

    I think my sidecar swingarm rose joints may have been 1/2 inch

    I should note that they would normally fail at the thread unlike mine which had the threads welded up.

    DSC_0003_3.JPG
  5. RoundOz

    RoundOz Plenty of seasoning

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    I can definitely see your point about catastrophic failures. Ball joints rarely do that without wearing out first. Rose joints are pretty popular in race car suspension systems, but in these applications they may be changed out on a regular basis.
    It looks like in your application they were welded. I'd be a little concerned that the heat treatment was compromised - this effect can be concentrated where the piece is thinnest, or where there are transitions, rather than where the weld is. It looks like this breakage was where grease nipples are threaded in. Maybe a better bet is the non-greaseable style and just change them out routinely. In service there should be no movement, so grease nipples seem a little superfluous to me. Or this particular situation may have been better served by ball joints if adjustments need to be made to angles.
    Rose joints are designed for longitudinal loads, not for side loads - I say this because it's hard to get my head around how they are used in the photo.
    Geoffreywh, Old Mule and Bobmws like this.
  6. m_cliffhanger

    m_cliffhanger Momentary Lapses of Reason

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    That's quite a failure, however, looking at the remnants, I would speculate that those were a low quality rod end (rose joint). The wall thickness of the race does not look to be more than 2 or 3 mm, and it was further weakened by the grease nipple hole (as RoundOz observed). I'm in no way an expert on rod ends, but I have found that rod ends with grease nipples are usually found in industrial applications, rather than in racing or aviation. I also think that by welding the threads, and by the size of the bead, a lot of heat was introduced, that weakened the race further.
    Your experience has obviously turned you off rod ends (rose joints), but with the right quality and sizing, I have no concerns about using them.
    brstar and Hookalatch like this.
  7. Geoffreywh

    Geoffreywh old bike bloke.

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    You cannot do that to rose joints and not expect failure, a better solution was to use a car drive shaft universal joint, but please, no welding.
  8. m_cliffhanger

    m_cliffhanger Momentary Lapses of Reason

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    A bit of a fiddly project; making the foot peg mounts with pedals, master cylinder mount etc. I copied the rear-set as much as I could, but turning it into a front-set (if there is such a thing). The most important part are the mounting cups, as they are held by the swing arm bolt, and therefore provide a lot of strength. Tied into the top of the frame it also became the perfect the sidecar fore/aft mount.

    IMG_8606.jpg IMG_8607.jpg IMG_8605.jpg
    Honda-50, brstar and High Octane like this.
  9. bk brkr baker

    bk brkr baker Long timer

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    So , what's the rest of the story ? Waiting for winter to start again ?
  10. m_cliffhanger

    m_cliffhanger Momentary Lapses of Reason

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    Oh my, it's been a long time that I posted. Thanks for checking in, bk brkr baker.
    I had done more work over the winter, but this spring I decided to take a break; so yes, I'm waiting for winter again, to finish it up.
    Normally I don't interrupt my builds, but this spring my older daughter (15) decided that she wanted to learn to ride a bike. So it took very little convincing for me to find her a little DRZ 125, followed by a DRZ400S for myself; can't let the kid ride by herself, can I? So we've been having a lot of fun together. I enjoy the easier trails and logging roads; I've done my share of dragging a thumper over gnarly trails and I'm getting too old for falling down. So this is really fun. And it feels good to be on a bike again.
    I'll post some pics soon, of where things are now with the build.
    Nudie, budsboy, High Octane and 5 others like this.