Miscellaneous Chinese Bikes (merged) threadfest...

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by klingklang, Dec 9, 2005.

  1. klingklang

    klingklang Been here awhile

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    Watch them, they are coming. Jialing announce that they will sell a 600 dual sport bike throught their SIDAM network in europe. The Jialing 600 Rocane:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    engine 600cc single
    horsepower: 30@6500rpm
    torque: 37.6 ft.lbs@4500

    expected price: 5000euro (5900us) note that european market is more expensive then here. They said in the news that is 2000euro less than the competition.

    What do you think? looks good but I think it will stop there



    french link:

    http://www.motomag.com/spip/article.php3?id_article=842




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    #1
  2. yater

    yater Long timer

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    I guess we'll see. More options are always better but man that thing looks cheap
    #2
  3. SWSportsman

    SWSportsman Been here awhile

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    I can just see them lined up in front of Wal-Mart now!
    #3
  4. Motociclista

    Motociclista got your back

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    WOW!! They stole design clues from all over! What a mix! Fred
    #4
  5. viverrid

    viverrid not dead yet

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    Okay, so this early version is a cheap POS. But a dozen generations down the line, they'll catch up. Classic progression. I remember when "Made in Japan" meant cheap crap also. Now they stand for quality and reliablilty.

    But this version really is a POS. 30 hp out of 600 cc!
    #5
  6. Desert Dave

    Desert Dave Enjoying the moment

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    Interesting, even if it seems to be a POS.

    I've seen many of the chinese knock off dirtbikes and they are generally sub standard to the competition.....but usually they're about 1/3 the price, which could be attractive for a starter bike for your kid if you're on a budget. How are they trying to market this? At $5900 I just can't see someone saying "Yyeah I'll take that one!" over what's already available.

    I'll keep an open mind but it's gonna be hard.
    #6
  7. Lone Rider

    Lone Rider Registered User

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    This is a good thing.

    Sorry, didn't mean to run on so much........
    #7
  8. Komet

    Komet The Voice of Reason

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    Good point...I remember when "Made in Japan" was cheap crap too. That Red Chinese bike looks like a cheap imitation of a BMW F bike.
    #8
  9. carioca

    carioca Been here awhile

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    I think this is great! An affordable bike for people like me who cannot afford bmw gs's.

    There was a thread about how manufacturers not getting the point. And I think they do not get the point when it comes to prices. Bmw gs's for 15,000$. Ktm 950's for 13k? The reason I ride bikes is because they are cheap, anything over 10k$ and its really asking for it, and defeats the purpose for me.

    Bikes like this bring us back to the basics.

    I would really be interested in knowing more about these bikes, they seem like a great thing.
    #9
  10. dlearl476

    dlearl476 Two-bit Throttle Bum Supporter

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    Not until they can pass EPA emissions standards.

    >But this version really is a POS. 30 hp out of 600 cc!

    If I'm not mistaken, this is to avoid EU emissions regs. Here, we draw the line at 50cc. I think in EU it's 34 hp, it's considered a "scooter".

    >I've seen many of the chinese knock off dirtbikes and they are generally sub standard to the competition.....but usually they're about 1/3 the price, which could be attractive for a starter bike for your kid if you're on a budget.

    Chinese industry is currently making copies of everything transportation from Vespas to 600 class Mercs and BMW 740s for 20%-50% of the cost of a Western product. Amazing what you can do without the cost of R&D, environmental controls, patents, or a labor force that can stand up for a reasonable wage.
    #10
  11. ChrisC

    ChrisC Amal sex?

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    fixed

    Well said. Call me a jingoistic bastard, but they can keep their Commie built POS trademark infringing piles. Not for my money..... ever. :deal
    #11
  12. viverrid

    viverrid not dead yet

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    That's probably THE reason for most of the world - but not in the US.

    Most riders in the US, especially the ones on this forum, could (and do) also afford to have one (or more) cars/trucks/SUVs and ride for sport (despite their often trying to rationalize riding as being cheap & practical on this forum). Performance beats price in many cases.

    I'll tell you though, that these Chinese knockoffs are kinda getting to me too - when referring to the People's Republic, I'd say that "Chinese business ethics" is an oxymoron. And I'm of Asian ethnicity, and have been to the PRC. I'd say that most of the populace pretty much doesn't get the idea of intellectual property. If they CAN make it, they don't understand why they shouldn't. They think that making it is the thing that counts, not "owning" the concept. (These are generalizations, but from my personal observations seemed generally true.) The PRC is somewhat akin to a nation of bootleggers.
    #12
  13. fixer

    fixer KLR-riding cheap bastard

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    [​IMG]

    purdy bodywork, i wonder if they fixed the dooickey? :D
    #13
  14. klingklang

    klingklang Been here awhile

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    you cant compare with here, euro market is so different, every bike is more expensive than the US market. I just did dis comparaison with a V-stom 650 and give us an idea. In europe, the 2006 DL-650 sugested price is 7499euro ($8812us) and the suggested price for the US market is $6699us. It is a bit more than 30% difference. Base on that ,I think this bike could be sell here with a difference somewhere between 20-30% $4150-$4700us.
    #14
  15. CaribouCases

    CaribouCases Boulder CO

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    Looks like they had a pre-2000 BMW F650 to copy, but it was missing the headlight assembly, so they got one from a V-Strom, and they took the seat from a Transalp.:rofl

    I read somewhere that China is by far the largest producer of motorcycles & scooters in the world. The economics could be brutal for our Euro-Japan makers, but probably what we'll see is more of the lightweight components being made in China and slapped on our favorite brands. I wonder how much of the KLR is already made in China? Eastern Europe is a more likely source for BMW & KTM parts. As far as complete Chinese bikes that can stand up to the current competition, it will be many, many years.
    #15
  16. SCQTT

    SCQTT Zwei Kolben

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    There is no stopping this.

    American consumers want cheap stuff. We complain about selling out to China and the line up at Wal-Mart to buy cheap consumables.

    The Dirt bikes "knock offs" are not really that. Years ago some of the Japanese factories sold their tooling for very old outdated bikes. They sold this tooling to Chinese factories to make bikes for the Chinese domestic market. In China there are millions and millions of what look to be old CB125 Hondas & fewer, but still an impressive number of XL125 Hondas.

    They did this for a number of years, but recently have decided to try to sell some of them in the US. I do not think the Japanese companies expected that to happen. Now most of the Japanese motorcycle manufacturers own portions of the stronger Chinese motorcycles companies. I think they do this to keep them somewhat controlled. I bet we will be able to buy Chinese made Yamahas within the next 10 years.

    Jialing is a very big name over there, but I think if they want to sucessful here they will need to hire a US marketing firm to make it look less like a motorcycle version of a Yugo. A name change would be a good place to start.

    Not saying it does not happen, but I spend about 60 days a year in China visiting many factories. I have never seen children working, maybe 16 year olds, but that is about it, no one younger.

    The Chinese mc mfgs take up a huge amount of room at the Dealer Expo in Indy. They are getting their shit together and will become stronger and stronger competition for the Japanese brands.

    I think we saw a similar situation in the late 50's early 60s here. The euro brands were not concerned over the Japanese "Junk" we they first entered the US. 10 years after they started the Japanese brands were dominating and the euro brands fading. By the late 70s most euro brands were gone and even mighty HD was way in the red.

    I do not think we will see such a massive shift as last time, the world is much smaller and huge modern companies like Honda are much smarter than, let's say, the old Triumph/BSA company. That said, I do think the Chinses companies will have some impact on our market.
    #16
  17. element

    element Time to roll

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    We had 3 and still have a couple Chinese 200cc dual sports. They can be best discribed as 100cc Honda XR's (mono-shock versions).... with a 200cc engines stuffed in. These are way cool trail bikes, NOT MX bikes. There are two types of Honda copies OHC and OHV... nearly twins of Honda motors transmissions. Keeping the design limits of a 100cc XR in mind, my son and I who weigh between 250 and 280... and have been running these bikes in hub deep mud, rocky trails and forest roads without a problem. (other that bent rims, handle bars, broken spokes, flat tires, snapped levers and etc.). Yes I know your KTM is much better, but I could buy 4 - 5 of these 200cc and toss them for the price of one 200cc KTM. Also, they have electric start and only need oil changes, chain lube and who gives a crap about the rest... well may hose it off to keep mud out of the garage. To all the non-believers, the yellow tide is arriving. Contrary to what your local dealer may say (why do you talk with those *i-*? anyway?) Yes there are parts available and they have been totally dependable. Very soon... many will be singing praises about Chinese bikes just like they do now for the Japanese bikes. You can take that to the Bank.
    #17
  18. Gonzodog

    Gonzodog Been here awhile

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    The company I work for makes adhesives and chemicals in China to sell to the China market. Automotive and scooters, etc are our biggest market segment. Our figures show there are in the vicinity of 8,000,000 scooters and small motorcycles built in the People's republic every year. I've visited many cities in China and there are scooters everywhere - and they are running - sometimes hauling dad and mom and the kid (only 1 allowed). The sheer weight of numbers will drive quality levels up as their designers, manufacturing practices, and workforce skills improve.

    You do see a few Yamaha's in Shanghai (the Shanghai police use 250cc Virago's with the police package - very cute). But except for the Shanghai Yami's - everything else is local.

    I have to agree - their mc industry will mature and they will move up-market. There will be massive industry consolidation as well.

    BTW - Yamaha already makes mc's in the "other" China - Taiwan. There's a factory just north of Taichung that the last time I went past there had about 8-10 acres of scooters and small mc's on the tarmac waiting for shipment.
    #18
  19. SCQTT

    SCQTT Zwei Kolben

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    Yes, they make Chinese Yamahas for other markets I do not think anyone can keep up with they demand for these in developing countries.

    I was saying the we would see Chinese made Yamahas for sale here in the US. They have a factory in China in addition to what you saw in Taiwan

    I think maybe some of the Yamaha generators that are for sale in the US are now made in China.
    #19
  20. dr650bc

    dr650bc Been here awhile

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    will the quality ever reach the level we are used to? the culture is very different than japan. As mentioned in an earlier post business ethics in Asia are pretty wide open.

    I still have a problem with the slave labour rates paid in china so spoiled brats can drive around vancouver, BC in $90,000 german cars having never worked a day in their life. Believe me, this is VERY obvious.

    No, for now I'll stick with Suzuki
    #20