Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Equipment' started by JUIJITSU, Jul 22, 2002.
When should you use Mobil 1 Oil
Your engine oil is separate from your gearbox oil, you change it every 6000 miles, and it makes your engine sound bad. What benefits would you gain from synth? I could go with final drive and gearbox synth with changes every 12K.
If you're going to do lots of slow, knarley, hot trail work then Synthetic will be a better oil. I'm talking about hanging at 7 or 8 bars on the temp guage for and hour or more at a time. Otherwise the old dino oil will work just fine.
The other alternative is to change the dino oil more often. 4k or so if you're abusing it.
Pays your money and takes your chances.
Dino in the beemer and Syn in the Harley (sombitch runs HOT)
what do we all think 'bout running dino oil in the airheads,
which tend to run hotter than the oilers?
if changed regularly, in a very hot environment, say every
3K miles or so, are there not advantages to synthetics?
I hate beating the old dog to death, but also hate $8./qt
I have never been a fan of extended oil changes. Sure, the synthetic oils do not break down as fast, but you have suspended contaminates that are floating around doing thier thing. If you use synthetics, at least change the filter at the suggested interval. We have confirmed this at work with pickups and heavy equipment by oil sampling. The results should be the same for a bike.
Most cycles do not have a very large oil capacity, so on my junk I stick with dino and change often!
We use Castrol GTX 20w50 in our Airheads. Its so far beyond what the original BMW engine designers had to work with that it may as well be synthetic. :)
IF you have leaks under control so you aren't dripping that expensive oil all over the place, then if you want go ahead and use it.
Here are my opinions on synthetic oils:
1) Regarding break in, which I assume this poll was meant to address but never really mentioned. I do not think synthetic is so "slippery" that it prevents break-in, and I think it can be run as soon as you want. I voted at 600 miles, but you could wait until the first oil change. There are a number of automobile makes that have now synthetic right out of the factory.
The main thing with break-in is to follow the manufacturer recommendations at first, then once that is done, ride it hard. I don't mean hard at one RPM, I mean hard at varying RPMs. Take it out to some long section of twisties and just go at them. I did this with my DR after the first 600 miles were up (done in a couple of days), and it made a real difference in how the bike ran thereafter.
2) Unless you are racing, doing a lot of stop and go riding, are in a very dusty/dirty/sandy environment, or in a very hot or extremely cold environment, or you are riding through the Sahara or similar envrion where you are doing a lot of slow speed high rpm off-roading, you probably don't need synthetic. Hell, on an Airhead you probably don't need the oil cooler. On the OIlhead with its significantly higher compression, higher horsepower, higher weight, higher speed capability, and poorer aerodynamics (I think), it definitely needs the oil cooler it has, and it would probably benefit from synthetic if ridden hard. The Airhead, in stock form and the way most people ride it, probably doesn't need synthetic or its oil cooler. The oil cooler probably does more good than synthetic or a deep oil pan - and is a lot more cost effective.
3) The main place I would run synthetic on either GS is in the gear box. Synthetic gear lube, or Dow Corning M Gear Oil Additive.
Oops! I forgot to add that the most important thing you can do regarding your engine oil is to regularly make sure that the level is correct, and to change the oil and filter regularly. Beyond that, as long as you use a decent oil, the rest isn't going to make that much difference.
Thanks Lauren, and all.
Starting weaping a bit of Mobil 1 out from around the
pushrod tubes, onto the skid plate and my right boot, soon
after I changed from whatever my buddy had in there, last.
Thinking the Mobil 1 is the culprit...? Not enough oil loss
to even measure, but got my boot good and water resistant.
I'm gonna start running the less expensive dino stuff, and
just change oil/filter every 4K or so. Just didn't know if the
synthetics would handle the Arizona heat better. Gotta
start listening to you'z guys more, my last self-oil change
cost me like $34., that suckes. Harrumphhh.
(I ride mainly highway/twisty stuff, 60-200+ miles at a time)
Me? Dino. 10w40 and I change it every 3k, since I'm not too easy on the bike (high RPM's, dirt, etc.). I look at it like this: there's gonna be stuff in it no matter what - I can run the best "cheap" oil and change it every 3k mi. and save $$$ over using Synth. I'm not sold on the benefits of Synthetic over Dino if you're going to be changing oil @ 3k.
However, in the tranny, I plan to switch to Redline Synthetic soon. I've heard that really helps smooth out the shifts.
Just my humble opinion...
I have to vote with Fish - I wasted money on both Mobil1 and Mobil1 Vtwin with my '97 - all it did was cost more money and make my cam chain noisey as hell and it used oil.
If I can get Golden Spectro 20W50 cheap I do it, otherwise good old BMW DINO. Been using it in the '96 with 45K and my 1150 with 16K, both quiet and neither uses a drop of oil.
Regular Spectro 20-50 until 18,000 miles, then Golden Spectro 20-50 since then. I aint using any of the "SJ" or higher car shit in my bike. I use the Spectro "SG" stuff.
My sources say that 10W base stocks are typically of poorer quality than the base stocks used for 20W50. FWIW.
Try Exxon "Superflo" 20W50 - $1.29/qt at Autozone, and SF/SG/SH rated.
WHAT ABOUT SYNTHETICS?
Synthetic and synthetic blend oils offer advantages over conventional mineral oil products. They are better in extremes of heat and cold. They provide better oxidation resistance and thermal stability. Their extra cost is offset by the benefits a properly formulated product provides to your motorcycle engine. Compared to mineral-based engine oils, as weve stated, the oxidation resistance is far superior, the friction in both the application and the fluid, itself, is less and the synthetic products have much better low-temperature properties. The film strength of synthetic products is also better as is the natural detergency of synthetic base fluids, in particular, the diesters. They cost more but in most cases can be cost effective if increases in fuel economy, engine longevity, extended drain intervals and decreased operating temperatures, particularly, are taken into account.
Benefits of synthetic blends and synthetic oils can be summarized as follows:
BENEFITS GAINED REASONS FOR THE GAIN
1. Extended drain intervals possible Greater resistance to oxidation
2. Increase in fuel economy Lower internal friction due to even molecular
3. Reduced wear in the engine Greater film strength of the synthetic compared with mineral oils
4. Cooler running engine Less friction causes less heat. This relates to oil
temperature and not water temperature, which is
5. Better cold flow characteristics Less internal friction and very low pour points
6. Faster oil flow on start up Low pour points/less internal friction
7. Cleaner engine PAO and diesters have a high natural detergency
plus detergent/dispersant additive use.
A technical Bulletin from the Spagthorpe Motorcycle Company you should read:
The Dangers of Synthetic Oil
Another opinion on synthetic oil from a experienced and faithful user
1. Synthetic oil does not leave build up near as much as dino oil in hot places in your engine such as the bottom side of the piston crown, pin boss area of skirt, tops of valves etc. cause it can live at higher temperatures.
2. Synthetic oil may weep or leak where dino oils wont.
3. Have used synthetic from day one in at least a dozen vehicles, some were driven over 200,000 miles and never experienced any break-in problems, never heard of any except some vague reference from the uninformed that it would not allow normal break-in (they had no personal experience). Like the other post said, many quality vehicles are delivered with synthetics. In the car world its getting so only the cheep ones arent.
4. Buying motorcycle specific synthetics is a waste of money. I have seen comparisons and the engineers at Mobil would like to know what these snake oil folks that sell the high priced motorcycle synthetics do to the oil to make it better then Mobil 1. They claim they make the best quality oil they can and if anybody can do better they want to know how they do it. Mobil 1 is as good as youll get. (My brother is a Mobil rep, anybody want to order a case? -nah)
5. A well maintained engine that uses the recommended grade/API rating would no doubt give long reliable service. The synthetic is just an edge, just a little insurance.
None of those vehicles was a BMW oilhead, was it?
Fascinating. I wonder why Mobil makes so many different motorcycle-specific synthetic oils then (four at last count)?
No it wasnt. Is there something special about an oil head or is it another suck-squeeze-bang-whoosh four stroke?
Yeah, I see they do. I run the 15w-50 and it has the same API rating as the motorcyle oils, of course the dino oils do too. What do you think the difference is? I havent seen the BMWs manual, do they just recommend a weight and an API rating like everybody else?
Timberwoof, great article reference!
I use Mobil 1 after 10,000k. I used to be in the car biz and it was incredible the difference in the wear on engines in cars that used it. A friend used it in his older Porsche 911 for 100k, that was also a track car and the engine wear was nominal after all this use. This does not happen with organic oils on those engines.
Bottom line, you get less wear. While it may not apply here, I used to have a Porsche with a turbo motor. I have seen turbo chargers that would 'coke' their turbo bearings from heat. Never happened with Mobil 1. Saw a demo once where they poured organic oil and Mobil 1 into separate frying pans and turned up the heat. The organic oil just burned up and turned to tar. The Mobil 1 just got hotter - no change in state. That was an incredible demo. While we don't get that hot with our oilheads, its nice to know that capability is there.
I usually leave my Mobil 1 in a little longer than organics: 4 - 5k vs. 3k (but do change it often because of contaminants) so I get about 60 percent more utility on a cost basis. I buy Mobil 1 for less than $5, so cost isn't an issue if you are sane. My total cost for oil in 50k miles would be $200 with Mobil 1 (10 changes x $20 for oil per change.) For high end organics at $2 a quart and 3k intervals, it would be $136 (17 changes x $8 for oil per change.) You use filters less often with Mobil 1 if you go the slightly longer interval between changes, and if you use the BMW filters, the cost of the seven extra oil filters at least makes up the difference in cost to use Mobil 1 (I change filters at every oil change.) There is no cost reason not to use it.
If your bike leaks with Mobil 1, or has other issues, maybe it doesn't make sense. However I feel confident the engine experiences less wear by using it. I also feel more comfortable with Mobil 1 when the bike is running hot.
I saw that same demo.....It was a TV ad!!!
--I saw that same demo.....It was a TV ad!!!--
Now that I think about it, it was...I remember the demonstration well because it was related pretty clearly to the issue with the coking of the turbo hubs, which I was dealing with at the time.