Monster battery too much drain on charging system?

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by GearHeadGrrrl, May 8, 2018.

  1. BigFatAl

    BigFatAl Long timer

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    3 stators and 2 R&R’s in 50,000 miles on my 2007 DL1000 !!.
    GARBAGE electrical system....
    [​IMG]



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    #21
  2. BigFatAl

    BigFatAl Long timer

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    Here is my setup,bike charges it just fine !!!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


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    #22
  3. Kruzof

    Kruzof independently poor

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    Those are some seriously low-resistance connections. :thumb
    Got an electric motor tucked away somewhere?
    #23
  4. BigFatAl

    BigFatAl Long timer

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    That’s the main/only battery for the bike


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    #24
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  5. Dirty bike

    Dirty bike Eval Innovations Inc

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    @GearHeadGrrrl - The standard YTZ12S is 210 CCA and can be directly replaced with the 230 CCA YTZ14S. There is a noticeable improvement in cranking speed. I've done this on both my '12 Super Ten and the current (no pun intended :D) '15 Super Ten.

    You have the space if you want to dedicate it to a larger battery, but it's really about draw at starting, not load of your farkles. The Battery is classified as a 'starter battery' in moto/auto applications because that's what it does, start the engine. The electrical system of the bike powers the farkles, not the battery. If everything is working normally, your stator, in relation to the battery, is just keeping it maintained at 12v. Nothing will change if you add a larger battery except that you'll go longer before it dies if you have a fault and/or start drawing more power than the stator is putting out.

    Spend the money for a quality battery. And use a quality maintenance charger when you're not riding the hack. My batteries typically last 8-9 years. I use Yuasa batteries and Optimate chargers with de-sulfate routines. In 9 years on the FJR, the Optimate only de-sulfated twice. Once when I first hooked it up and once more after about 8 years. Still going strong at 9 years and 162k miles when I sold that bike. 107k on the same battery for the '12 Super Ten. (I killed the YTZ12S with the SW Motec City bag's powered tankbag ring that drew current even when nothing was plugged into it)

    If you want to power the mini fridge at rallies, get an Optima Yellow Top. It's a deep discharge battery intended for trolling motors and big audio systems that run with the vehicle off, then charge when you're running. Not a cheap option either! But an impessive amount of CCA.
    #25
  6. BigFatAl

    BigFatAl Long timer

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    Both my auto batteries on my rig are RV deep cycles.


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  7. GearHeadGrrrl

    GearHeadGrrrl Long timer

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    My '13 S10 is still on the original battery, so I'm in the market for a new one! I've had good luck with the OEM Yuasa, but it and the slightly higher capacity one you mention run close to $200 unless you go to the chinese clones. I've run the Optima yellow top in the sidecar of my R80ST before, combined with the EuroMotorElectric upgraded alternator I never wanted for power, was even able to shut off the engine when parades stopped and restart every time. Doing parades with the S10 I just leave it run as the fan routinely comes on, drops the temp to the fan shutoff temp, and repeat with no problem. However, I did have one slow moving parade in 100 degree weather with a wind from the left, resulting in the fan running near continious though never over the 221 degree fan turn on point. In situations like that I'd like to have a big ol' battery so I could shut off the engine.
    #27
  8. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad Former World's Foremost Authority Supporter

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    This is it in a nut shell.

    I use four 6 volt deep cycle batteries replacing two 12 volt deep cycle batteries in my toy hauler trailer. We do a lot of off grid "dry camping" with no "hook ups" and this set up is the snizzle for long trips. In mt opinion if you aren't trying to power anything without the rig running you are wasting your money on deep cycle batteries. Deep cycle batteries are designed to be drained way down with constant loads, standard batteries are designed for high loads over a short period of time (cold cranking). Also a standard battery should recover faster than a deep cycle battery after a discharge.
    #28
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  9. TurTal

    TurTal Been here awhile

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    Not sure if that's a typo but just in case

    In simple terms


    All loads...devices....farkles are on the load side of the battery

    As more demand/load is put on the battery a drop in voltage will be compensated for via the Regulator/Rectifier

    The battery side of the electrical system is DC and is stable....All devices run via the battery

    The Stator output is AC which is unstable.......hence the need for a R/R to feed the battery which then feeds the entire 12v circuit


    If you're going to design a circuit you need to understand how to calculate Battery Run Time



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    #29
  10. Johann

    Johann Long timer

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    Into oil thread territory here but here goes. It is counterintuitive but my understanding has always been that it is the stator/alternator which is powering the loads and not the battery. The battery is acting as a buffer to the variable AC power production of the stator, but it should not logically be the source of the power for the loads connected to the battery. The simple proof of this is to disconnect the stator, power those loads directly from the battery and see the battery drain in real time in proportion to the loads attached. If the battery is powering those loads and not the stator then you have by definition a system which is not charging or maintaining equilibrium but draining the battery in what will be an unsustainable manner given enough time relative to the capacity of the battery.
    #30
  11. FR700

    FR700 Heckler ™©®℗

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    Thought you were an electrical guru?

    Permanent magnet alternator has full out output just above idle. No battery required. The R/R job is to shed the excess voltage that it generates. Which is why, generally speaking, it's a bad idea to use LED bulbs.

    The chopper that I just finished uses a capacitor, no battery. 200 amp alternator.

    https://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/altp1.html


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    #31
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  12. Johann

    Johann Long timer

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    Plenty of production bikes without batteries, mainly offroad bikes. The obvious disadvantage is the inability to power lights (or anything else) when the engine isn´t running but if there is no leccy start, or FI/ECU/Fuel pump and the ability to keep lights on with the engine off isn´t mandated in local regs then a battery is totally optional. An AC regulator wired somewhere in parallel to the output from the stator with a good ground to prevent bulbs blowing is the only bit of tech bikes like the KLX300R have in their wiring loom.
    #32
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  13. TurTal

    TurTal Been here awhile

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    Well no ones ever called me a guru before but they gave me a degree

    I'm not gonna argue with ya

    The info You posted explains the need for a Cap...Battery/Load

    Which is how I tried to explain it as simply as I could since I don't know the level of experience this individual has

    We can talk on a higher level if you like



    Use a Mag...Gen...Dyno...3 way Alt to power any circuit you want to design


    At some point you're going to learn the hard way why you can't hook directly to any of these devices without consequence

    As far as load shedding...I've never seen it necessary in a modern 12v motorcycle circuit


    Nice chattin with ya though


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    #33
  14. FR700

    FR700 Heckler ™©®℗

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    Exactly.

    Crap like old Brit' bikes relied on a zener diode to dump excess voltage to ground which generated heat. Hence the cooling fins.

    The rectifier part was as simple as.

    [​IMG]


    Zener. Later styles didn't use fins and relied on being bolted the the aluminium inner half of the air box.

    Later T140 style zener.


    [​IMG]


    Earlier finned style that was commonly mounted between the forks where it could take advantage of the airstream.



    [​IMG]



    Battery eliminator capacitor.


    [​IMG]
    #34
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  15. FR700

    FR700 Heckler ™©®℗

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    What did you get your BS in? BS?

    Every now and then I'll click on view ignored content just to see how you're progressing. You never fail to exceed my expectations.




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    #35
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  16. TurTal

    TurTal Been here awhile

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    Hey speakin of Zener diodes

    I know a cool trick if your old airhead stops chargin

    But I ain't gonna tell ya


    .
    #36
  17. TurTal

    TurTal Been here awhile

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    So the fella who has me on ignore checks in once in awhile to see how I'm getting along so he can let me know he's got me on ignore

    I don't know wether to be confused or flattered

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    #37
  18. pagomichaelh

    pagomichaelh Been here awhile

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    What are you using for a capacitor?

    I did some experimenting with so-called ultra or super capacitors trying to weaponise high output LEDs for a client
    #38
  19. FR700

    FR700 Heckler ™©®℗

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    #39
  20. GearHeadGrrrl

    GearHeadGrrrl Long timer

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    What did I start... Please, can we go back to simple oil threads?
    #40
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