MONTANA 700 .... what a waste of kit

Discussion in 'GPS 101 - Which GPS For Me' started by Karlten, Aug 10, 2020.

  1. Karlten

    Karlten Bush Pilot

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    ONTANA 700 is out but DON'T BOTHER BUYING IT:devildog
    You have guessed it- AFTER OVER 16 YEARS have passed, it STILL cannot give you as better quality drift off track of less than 0.25 miles or 402 METERS WHEN NAVIGATING WITH COMPASS SET TO CDI ... :loco:loco
    SERIOUSLY GARMIN?
    Have any of you actually tried to navigate trying to find a runway / harbour entrance / turnstile gate / markers in virtually featureless terrain ETC ETC using just a single dot amounting to anything from zero to 0.25 MILES?

    Why can't you fit fast processors in your units especially now in 2020?
    or will you be keeping to your 'heard add nauseatum' mantra used for almost 16 years now that:
    " it takes time for the unit to receive the signal then calculate the result"

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  2. TripleTriples

    TripleTriples Long timer

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    This is why I switched to using an old phone to navigate. Orders of magnitude cheaper and no functionality lost that I know of (or would miss).
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  3. DRTBYK

    DRTBYK All Things GPS Supporter

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    Consider that, other than maybe powered aircraft, a CDI of 0.25mi is adequate when walking or even riding in most cases. Garmin's retort to me, when asked if they would provide CDI options, was that, "...not enough users asked for it."

    As far as I know, in the current Garmin handheld lineup, only the aera 660 supports user-selected CDI options (0.25nm, 1.5nm, 5.0nm) - as one would expect for aviation use.
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  4. Karlten

    Karlten Bush Pilot

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    Hell DRTBYK, confused as to how you feel that you are somewhere inside a 400+Meter radius from where you should be , is to be considered 'adequate'.
    We are all entitled to our own opinions but for what I use my satnavs for, it is woefully INadequate.
    Ride into sand dunes for example, then see how you feel in 40C+ in all your kit when you are anywhere in that radius looking for your turn point... or try to make an approach into a harbour in poor viz with that kind of variance sorry, that inaccuracy is just too much. In todays' terms, I'd accept 50 meters- at worse scenario 100meters.
    Handhelds which support CDI- all the 60 series up to 66i and the Montanas. (If you consider those handhelds). Of course I use the 'off course option to get a more precise idea of how far I have drifted but it would be logical if the CDI display would offer that data. ( for me anyway)
    The 276 and 278C had a Cross Track option back in ...2006 was it? and that was very useful but today some 14 years later that option is nowhere to be seen in the 276Cx...

    In the 'hailed as the future state of the art in navigation android MonTerra fitted with an android version which can't be updated.:fpalm.. and promptly discontinued after the first model... ahem...:fpalm:fpalm:fpalm
    Then the new 'hailed as the future state of the art in navigation (replacing the 278C) came the 276cX and in the 'set scale' CDI garmin, bless them, gave us a new option... 0,25Km, 1.25Km and 5Kms:confused Talk about heading the wrong way and detuning!
    Djeeez:fpalm desperate

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  5. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    I had to refresh my memory of what CDI was, and vaguely remembered one of your previous posts about it on a different unit...

    I think you may be way ahead of the abilities of 99% of the GPS unit buyers. that's probably why Garmin didn't seem interested/concerned with addressing it.

    you are just too advanced for more folks to understand, sorry ! maybe pilots(air/water) would have a better understanding of the importance of the accuracy you're looking for, but most of the land locked folks will not understand the issues with navigation that you've pointed out.

    I've seen issues with simple accuracy before, when a trail splits 4 ways and it's really hard to tell if I'm on the right one (elevation differences in the trails only, same direction, same contours) or not. but what you're doing in the dessert, ya , I can see that being a really big deal.

    have you requested they improve it, or mentioned the water going sales they might be missing because of it ?
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  6. DRTBYK

    DRTBYK All Things GPS Supporter

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    @Karlten seems to me that pilot's and mariners managed to navigate successfully long before CDI on a handheld GPS. Don't get me wrong, I spent several hours trying to make the same points to Garmin during development of most of the devices you eluded to - without much luck as you can see. On the other hand (no pun intended) if there was a meaningful market for that level of accuracy in Garmin's handhelds, I expect it would be there.
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  7. road_apple

    road_apple Hit the Trail

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    Ships and planes don't use Garmin consumer handhelds for navigation. Commercial and military units are using more inputs than just a GPS signal for CDI. I wish the consumer division at Garmin the best. If they ever expect to sell handhelds in significant numbers outside the REI catalog they need to step up with better design and application.
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  8. Karlten

    Karlten Bush Pilot

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    @DRTBYK yes, and once upon a time, biplanes pilots used a half full glass of whisky as an artificial horizon (which they promply drank upon landing before their spanner monkeys could get to them!) but they didn't have to fork out over 500 bucks for satnags without a soul aka fitted with desperately slow processors.

    @ohgood
    IF the will was there, with a small software tweak and a processor up to speed, for units who can now offer a relative precision of between 5 to meters, it makes sense that the cdi off track error could be reduced to some 50 meters per marker.
    Ahem...I did say 'IF the will was there' garmin but ....
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  9. PHILTHYP

    PHILTHYP Adventurer

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    Same
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  10. M-R

    M-R MOTO-RECON

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    Map and phone (My Maps) for most general navigation... I don't have a lot else to say; except I've wasted a lot of hard earned money for GPS devices, and the ROI simply cannot match a map and phone. Of course I'm biased because I make maps, but that doesn't mean I haven't given GPS all my efforts.
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  11. Exurban

    Exurban Been here awhile

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    I’ve been trying to understand the tantrum induced concern and the example that comes to mind would be on the boat with dead electronics and only the 700i to guide me. Not an uncommon scenario- in the ocean in fog and approaching a rock jetty lined inlet. If I plot a waypoint inside the inlet and the ocean current pushing the boat sideways increases the cross track error within a margin of a quarter mile, yes I could very easily run into the rocks, sink the boat and die.

    However, I would never place the waypoint inside the inlet. I would place a waypoint outside the jetty and now with nearly any amount of cross track error, I know I will not hit the rocks. From there, I proceed to the next waypoint inside. Similarly, I routinely use sea buoys as waypoints. However, I set the actual waypoint that I’m navigating to at least a 0.25 mile before and to the side of the buoy so I don’t run into it.

    I’ve not had my electronics go out and the boat’s autopilot corrects for a cross track error down to 0.001 of a nautical mile. Even with that accuracy and precision, I still place waypoints where they keep me from getting in trouble and I’ve been in zero visibility in dangerous conditions a number of times. Much of New England is rocks and pea soup fog. I anticipate the effects of wind and current and the consequences of getting off track. I plan my navigation accordingly.

    For me, good navigation practices obviate the need for a more calibrated CDI. So even though I understand the need for precise tools and use them, in this instance I’m still one of the 99% who isn’t bothered.
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