Mosko Moto Soft Bags for Offroad & Dualsport

Discussion in 'Vendors' started by Sideoff, Oct 14, 2013.

  1. HaChayalBoded

    HaChayalBoded Brooklyn Bored

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    Personally I must have something at least 24" wide by 12" deep. Height can be anywhere from 12"-15"

    Most of the backpacking type of sleeping bags and pads are roughly 12" long (at least the dozen or so different items I have).

    It just helps make packing easier.

    Of the 20 or more MC tailbags, duffels, saddlebgas, tankbags, e.t.c. I own. For long trips my rear seat duffel of choice has always been the Cabelas boundary waters duffel. 24x12x12 rectangular.

    rectangular instead of round gives you roughly a 35% increase in volume compared to the same length and width\height of a round duffel. Plus it makes packing much much easier. Also, it's doesn't roll away on ya.
  2. btao

    btao RIP Lilolita

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    Cool, great progress!

    A duffel to me should just fit a tent, roll mat, and two sizes that can fit a sleeping bag inside and outside. A specific molle attachable sleeping bag waterproof sack would be great. I have a high tech bag that gets tiny, and a rectangular Coleman flannel one for warmer weather and is twice the size.... Go figure.

    My only big complaint for many jackets if you do apparel is waterproof pockets for: registration and insurance, wallet, phone and a long pocket inside for a map. IMO, every pocket should be waterproof even if the jacket isn't.

    sent from my portable multipurpose communicator
  3. Sideoff

    Sideoff Long timer

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    This duffle proto is 24" long, 14" wide, and 8.5" tall. +/- 1/2" for bulge. The roll top ends make it look a little bigger.

    I think we're ultimately going to need two sizes of duffles. We talked to a bunch of riders before starting and it's seems like everyone does things differently in terms of where they pack clothes versus tents/food etc. Some people put clothes in the rear duffle and camping supplies on the side, some do the opposite.

  4. Sideoff

    Sideoff Long timer

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    Based on the measurements and this online calculator:

    http://mathcentral.uregina.ca/volume_calculator

    I came up with 46 liters. It could expand to approx. 55 with the dual roll tops. I'm looking at it in front of me right now and I think it looks like a good size for an extended trip, but too big for just a weekend. I think we need a smaller one too.


  5. Sideoff

    Sideoff Long timer

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    Sticker sent. If anyone else wants one just PM me your address. Talked to my buddy and he said he has a bunch, I'll get some more next week. So they may not get sent out until next week.
    easyrider11 likes this.
  6. MadM

    MadM Dreamer Supporter

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    Well that is actually a good size. I guess the picture makes it look huge. I thought that it is at least 60L+ from that picture.
  7. HaChayalBoded

    HaChayalBoded Brooklyn Bored

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    Don't pay too close attention to the liter size of soft bags when calculating with the dimensions. You can easily increase the liters by 20% with bulge.

    Someone tested a bunch of MC luggage and found that most of the time, the claimed capacity was less than tested. Testing was done by putting in a known quantity of jelly beans or coffee beans. With waterproof bags, they simply used water.
    easyrider11 likes this.
  8. Three Dawg

    Three Dawg Into Africa

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    Kriega stuff and the Wolfman Rocky bags are like that- my experience of Kriega stuff is that the double layer works well. I like the way you can leave the outer bags on the bike with the Wolfman and quickly whip the inners out and get them indoors if it's slinging it down.
  9. AteamNM

    AteamNM Wonna Be ADVrider Supporter

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    I love the Kriega and Wolfman. Giant Loop serves a rear framless market very well. I belive the Walter Coalbatch bags are the best but also very expensive. ($650+ to the USA).


    Great stuff guys, good luck and I like the way your thinking.



    [​IMG]

    Having tried pretty much everything out there and still frustrated by the shortage of features, I decided to build a set for myself. I wanted bags that were capable of carrying a good 35 litres of stuff. The bigger the bags are, the more weight you can get down low, and the smaller your back bag needs to be. I wanted bags that could keep your stuff dry. In the end I decided a removeable waterproof dry bag liner was the best solution as you can take your dry stuff out in a 5 second grab - and take it into your tent - or accommodation - without having to rummage thru the bag in the rain, or take a wet muddy outer bag into a tent or hotel.

    Then the bags had to be lockable - a few ideas came and went before I decided to use PacSafe WrapSafe cables. The advantage of these cables is that you can not only lock the bags shut, but you can lock the bags to your luggage rack - by routing the cable through it. The bags have loops front and back for routing the cable and holding it to the bag. So by doing that we had the first motorcycle soft bags that actually offer some sort of security and lockability.

    But to complete the security picture we wanted to make the bags slash proof. Not much point locking the bags shut if someone can just slice them open in 2 seconds. Again everything including internal wire mesh was considered, before deciding to sandwich a layer of Kevlar / Twaron in the bag construction. Its extremely difficult to cut and is used in stab proof and bullet proof vests. This puncture restance further adds to the durability of the bags.

    Finally the outer material ... Cordura has earned a very good reputation as an extremely abrasion resistant fabric. Many riding pants and jackets are made from 600 denier Cordura. To imagine the durability difference between Cordura and canvas, imagine wearing canvas jeans and sliding down an asphalt road on them - as compared to the same with normal Cordura riding jacket and pants. To make sure of the durability and ruggedness of the product, we decided to pass on the 600 denier Cordura and go straight for 1000 denier Cordura - almost twice as thick and many times as strong. With a outer bag sandwich of 1000D Cordura AND Kevlar / Twaron fabric, the bag is much much much tougher than anything on the market in terms of durability and survivability.
  10. 01001010 01000011

    01001010 01000011 AKA-JC

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    I have been wondering if there might be a way to use the top bag-to-bag straps
    as backpack shoulder straps for at least one of the bags if not both?
    Has that ever been considered ?
  11. PWRCRZR

    PWRCRZR Grumpy Old Bastard

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    very interesting concepts....lots of room for growth in this market.:clap
  12. team ftb

    team ftb Befuddled Adventurer

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    I have the Kriega Overlander 30 and like you, I thought the idea of whipping out the inner liners easy and leaving the dirty bags on the bike would be nice. However if the bags are packed anywhere near capacity it's a time consuming exercise in frustration to remove inners from the bags.

    Here they are not packed to capacity but reasonably full, and was staying in a guest house so thought it would be nice to just bring the clean Kriega liners into my room instead of the muddy bags.

    [​IMG]

    However it took me 20 minutes to get the damn liners from the bags. Soft luggage bulges when packed and those bulges make removing them through the (non bulging) top opening of the Overlander a bit of a patience test:lol3. I ended up having to remove 30% of the bag contents to get the liner out.
  13. Three Dawg

    Three Dawg Into Africa

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    LOL! I can see why you persevered in trying to get the liners out though.

    The Kriega habit of vecro-ing in the inner bag makes removing them difficult, something Wolfman seem to have tried to address with the tapered design of their Rockies. Also the inner bag of the Wolfmans rolls over at the top separately so you've got something to grab hold of.

    Of course, this can be a problem if using top loading hard boxes- a mate of mine used to struggle to get his inner bags out of his Zegas- it's only ever easy on clamshell bags.
  14. kantuckid

    kantuckid Long timer

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    Not all velcro is the same. There are military surplus items with velcro that many years old & still works great after much hard use. Commonly used by military for hard use.
    I'm only part way through posts but After trying a look @ sevceral tank bags: all with good construction, I rejected the Wolfman for lack of a "defined shape" Firstgear for too much over design & was too little capacity vs. overall size. Chase-Harper ended up getting my buy $ & has great design work yet simpler approach to having features yet not over done as Firstgear & good price points too compared to say Wunderlich,Held & some of the brands shown earlier in this thread. Me personally, I don't ride dirt & don't want soft sidecases-my choice was Pelicans w/Wolfman racks(3/4" rd steel tubing) & HT alu pucks. Those pucks made of ALU-someone needs to sell them molded from strong plastics as you reference earlier. I considered cutting my own from alu angle stock but given shipping & amt of material needed it made sense to just buy theirs. Why machine something that has a cheaper, easier plastic solution? Jesse bags use a nice hanger style lower bracket that could be improved with your "wedge approach" mentioned above. Some new intuition also needs to be applied to attaching hard pelicans to top plates-it's easy to fab the plate yourself but quick & cheap removal isn't so easy. I used SS carriage M6 screws with rubber bumpers in between case & top plate w/SS fender washers & hand knobs from Grainger Supply on inside. Knobs are "snap nut style" w M6 acorns cemented inside them. Fairly quick to remove for seat removal latch on BMW G650GS but Caribou has quicker solution(more $ too) that doesn't require 4 knobs.
    Good luck with projects...:D
  15. Sideoff

    Sideoff Long timer

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    Thanks for the feedback!
  16. Sideoff

    Sideoff Long timer

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    Great info, thanks!

    I had not seen those bags before. I like the external fuel storage and pocket, plus its interesting to see the way the drybag closes separately from the outer bag.

    The pacsafe is cool. That was also mentioned earlier on this thread. As we get a little further along with the designs we may look for a way to integrate that into the concept. It would be great if one of their camera bag protectors could fit around the outside of our liner. Not sure how many users would opt to use it, but its an interesting option.

    We're definitely interested in the ballistic cordura, and we're also considering things like hypalon and maybe even superfabric for our abrasion spots.

    Thx!
  17. Sideoff

    Sideoff Long timer

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    epic pic. damn, that makes me want to go riding!!
  18. AteamNM

    AteamNM Wonna Be ADVrider Supporter

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    All posted with respect. When you have your RTW saddle bags prototype made, I want them. Local homegrown companies like yours in todays business negative climate deserve as much support and respect that we locally can provide.

    Good karma blessings coming your way.
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  19. Sideoff

    Sideoff Long timer

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    This week we met with “The Last U.S. Bag Company” in Hemlock, WA. Never heard of Hemlock? I hadn't either and I live 30 minutes away. We were pretty excited to find out The Last US Bag Company is located right in our backyard.

    [​IMG]

    I called LUBC and had a nice chat with the owner, Will. He invited us to tour their facility in Hemlock, where they recently converted an old seed mill into a cut & sew facility. Will is very knowledgeable on the topic of US versus overseas production, as well as all things related to manufacturing bags. He has adapted to a changing world by establishing lots of overseas contacts so he can serve as both a US factory and also a sourcing agent. The strategy seems to be working, he’s busy. So busy that it might be hard for him to take on this new project.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Embroidery machine

    [​IMG]

    Rotary hot air welder (for drybags)

    [​IMG]

    I’m learning that it’s hard to find skilled sewers in the US. And even if you can find the sewers and they have time for your project, it’s even harder to find parts and materials because all the fabric mills and suppliers are overseas. So even if we find a domestic factory which can produce our bags, we still face limitations with respect to fabrics and materials. Will suggested the possibility of a “hybrid” approach, with individual panels being made overseas and then final assembly here in the US, so that is something we’ll consider.

    If we want the bags in stock and ready to ship by May then we don’t have much time left to find a factory. We’re feeling the pressure.

    Pannier

    We got our third round pannier prototype back and from a functionality standpoint, we like it. The beavertail works well and so do the molle panels. We’re ready to think more seriously about fabric. Looking at the bag on Andre’s KLR, however, we still feel the size is large. We’re leaning toward two different sizes: one for extended trips and larger bikes, and one for shorter trips and smaller bikes.

    [​IMG]

    Here’s the pannier with molle fuel canister holders on the bottom, a molle hydration pouch on the front, and a roll top pocket for tools/tubes on rear.

    [​IMG]

    The beavertail holding a jacket

    [​IMG]

    Hein has been busy creating CAD models for our mounting system, which is still a major open item. They’re finished and programmed, waiting for the prototypes to be machined. We bought some HDPE sheet (wow.. expensive) and the plan is to make prototypes over the weekend. Hoping to have some parts to play with next week.

    Rear Duffle

    We have the same sizing issue on the duffle: we need both a small and large. The duffle dimensions, while consistent with other bags out on the market, don’t seem to account for a “bulge” factor. Plus the bag just looks too big when we put it on a bike.

    Here we’re testing the molle panels with a fuel bottle. We’re not happy with the construction of these panels, but for now they’ll work for testing.

    [​IMG]

    Overlapping beavertails

    [​IMG]

    Rackless Pannier

    We have a concept, Andrew is working on patterns. This is our top priority right now since this SKU is lagging the others timing-wise.

    Apparel

    Tonight we have a meeting with our apparel designer to get started on the design process. I’ve been researching the topic on advrider and the web to learn what’s out there and what people want. Seems like there are as many opinions on apparel as there are riders. Some like rain liners, some don’t. Some like integrated armor, some don’t. I found this post which seems to encapsulate the liner vs waterproof jacket issue particularly well:

    http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=777391

    Riders who spend a majority of their time in one climate naturally seem to want a riding kit designed for that climate. For example: if it’s always hot, sunny, and dry then a mesh, non-waterproof kit is ideal. Or if it’s always cold, cloudy, and wet, then an insulated, waterproof kit is better. But if you live somewhere with a big seasonal variance (hot/cold, dry/wet), or if you’re on a long trip that crosses multiple climates and seasons, or if you frequently switch from on-road to off-road riding and back, then variability and adaptability are the priority. That seems like a good place for us to start.

    A few riding pics from this week. This has been one of the best fall riding seasons I've had in a long time.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  20. Three Dawg

    Three Dawg Into Africa

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    V V good idea! :thumb