What I mean by 'trail & desert' is that those are the two scenarios where an ultralight emergency rain layer like the one we're talking about is needed. "Trail" refers (to me) to day-riding singletrack on, for example, 250-450cc dirt bikes with the bare minimum amount of gear. Usually this is in the mountains and trees, often up at altitude, and there's often the potential for sudden rain, cold temps, being out after dark, or a surprise night of camping. You're not expecting those things but you know they could happen, hence the need for an emergency rain layer in your pack. Sometimes pics help illustrate the scenarios better than words. Here's Ash in her Deluge for example, on our local trails, in the mountains. "Desert" could be touring or could be day riding but it refers to any terrain where you really don't expect there to be any rain so you're basically not bringing rain gear on the trip (ie Death Valley, Moab) except that you know you gotta bring at least something because if you don't then it'll be the one desert trip in a hundred that you wished you had. There's also the day ride desert scenario where it's not going to rain but you want a windbreaker in case it gets cold. On this week long trip to death valley a bunch of us had Deluge kits. There was a very low chance of any serious rain happening over the week or of even wearing a jacket at all for very long, so why take up more space? In both of these scenarios you want to pack the bare minimum rain gear but if you need it, you really need it. For most other scenarios, like what the one you laid out where it's raining a lot and frequently, hopefully we have that pretty well covered by the Basilisk or Rak, and soon we're adding the IR kit to the mix as well. If I'm expecting daily rain, the kit we're talking about here - the deluge - is not the one I would reach for. I'd take a Rak or Basilisk. They're more durable and designed for wearing for longer periods of time and more rain. That said there is also a certain type of minimalist rider (like @Sunaj I'm guessing, based on his comments and the Haglofs jacket, and @wachs, and some folks on our team) who take an emergency layer as their only layer no matter what the conditions are. At the levels of waterproofing we're talking about here (20kmm+) the thinness of the material doesn't really matter. You could make a drysuit out of that. However the lighter material is going to flap more in the wind (a hydration backpack helps) and it is not going to take a hit as well. I like how you put this. Everything we do comes from a 'dirt first' perspective. When we're riding pavement it's usually with the goal of eventually reaching dirt, even if we're on a 1290 riding to another state. Other brands have the long haul pavement and graded gravel space pretty well covered with their big all-in-one jackets. Personally I now prefer separate armor no matter what the surface but reasonable people can and do disagree all the time, which is part of why we're making the IR kit. Philosophy is a great word for it. Sunaj i appreciate your comments and I can tell we're on the same page. It's awesome to hear that you came around to it stubbornly. I was like that too and now I have the zeal of the convert. We are still in the minority but that could change. I see more and more people riding in separate armor. I think one of the biggest obstacles is the armor itself, which is why we're designing our own with Rheon's help. One thing I would add to what you said is that from my perspective 'simplicity' helps ALL the points including waterproofing not just 2, 3, & 4. When you think about it it's kind of nuts that companies use these incredible waterproof/breathable fabrics at like $18-25 a yard and then immediately cut all those holes in them for vents and pockets. Especially in a sport where you're riding straight into the rain faster and longer than almost any other activity. The water is not going to get in through the fabric on the jacket it's always going to be those holes you cut to add all those features. Because just one of the 25-30 zippers (not an exaggeration, that's the actual number of exterior zippers on many ADV kits. some have even more.) isn't fully closed and parked in its garage, or because it is leaking or has failed. It only takes one. This is a message I would like to help spread: venting and waterproofing work against each other. They are opposites. More of one means less of the other. The crazy amount of venting that is standard on ADV gear in my opinion comes from a) riders wanting abrasion protection on pavement and b) riders with integrated armor who don't want to take their jackets off because their armor is in the jacket. Those two things mean when it's hot you can't take your jacket off, so instead you end up wearing rain gear all the time in all weather and temperatures, and then cutting a ton of holes in it so you don't overheat. If on the other hand you're on dirt with separate armor it's better to not have a ton of vents and zippers in your rain gear and instead you just remove your jacket when you're hot. The jacket will be less likely to leak when you need it plus it'll last longer. Do you mean having mechanical venting in rain gear? For emergency rain gear, it has only one purpose which is to stop the water from getting in. As soon as it stops raining you take the gear off. It seems better to me to have no vents in a kit like that, because you wouldn't ever open the vents in the rain so why have them at all? The zippers will make it less packable, more expensive, and more likely to leak. I wasn't sure what you meant by well ventilated rain gear.