Moto Guzzi V85 TT

Discussion in 'Moto Bellissima: All Other Dualsports' started by cabanza, Nov 7, 2017.

  1. motrhead

    motrhead Travellin' Soul

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    I don't like single sided swing arms. You never see a regular swing arm fail! You don't lose an improperly torqued rim either. I will take old and simple.
    Oldebonz and Hoak like this.
  2. JNRobert

    JNRobert Breaking Wind

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    I've never seen those things either :lol3
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  3. JustKip

    JustKip Long timer

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    Definitely not saying I'd be disappointed at having 7+ gallons!
    Just that 6 wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me at all!
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  4. Dr AT

    Dr AT Long timer

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    Hoak, post:

    " Ye, the Öhlins can be pretty nice stuff, but Marzocchi can tit for tat them, and even one up them "

    Try telling that to a v11 owner!!! Guzzi gave the choice of REALLY crappy marzocchi forks in their sport/ lemans , or ohlins in their scurra / corsa - even though the ohlins were relatively low spec (for ohlins) , they were WAY ahead of the marzocchis. The marzochis had cartridges that couldn't be serviced / rebuilt, only one thin bush between slider / stanchion , and a weird tapered progressive spring designed for a 20 kg midget and no alternative spring rates (sour grapes from an 03 v11 lemans owner ......even my wilburs demigod suspension guru struggled to get those zochis working )

    At the end of the day, it's just a sticker on the fork and the real difference is what level the factory specs them at - but those ohlins forks on the v85 had lots of nice looking adjuster thingies on the caps ......and pretty yellow legs...so I will continue to delude myself into hoping guzzi gets it right this time
    bobw and Hoak like this.
  5. WitchCityBallabio

    WitchCityBallabio Guzzi weirdo

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    I have the Andreani/Ohlins cartridges in the forks of my 09. Night and day from the valving and handling from the stock Marzocchi. I also have the Ohlins rear shock. The stock shock isn't even the same species. I refer to the ride on my Stelvio now as the magic carpet. It takes major obstacles (large rocks) to upset the handling. I'm very excited to see the Ohlins on the V85.
  6. John Ashman

    John Ashman Adventurer Wannabe

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    I'm missing the part where it has a single sided swing arm. Single sided shock like a ninja or many others
  7. OtterChaos

    OtterChaos Guzzi Sud!

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    [​IMG]
    Stole this image from the V85 thread over on Wild Goose chase. Trax boxes! But I think I'd go for the yellow one myself.
  8. Hoak

    Hoak Long timer

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    Lupinzez! I was feeling argumentative and was going to say: "No! You could always get a..." and that's when I realized you're probably right; there are some bikes that fit this category but they're no longer in production; like the BMW HP2, and some heavily modified big singles like the Honda XL700, but sadly you are right... And unfortunately:

    Yes and I can tell you first hand these bikes are not fun to work on, in fact they're a tedious, time consuming, pain in the ass; it's like they took the worst lessons in Japanese motorcycle manufacture and tried to make sub-assemblies even more complex, require more hard to get to fasteners, and make even the most basic maintenance as difficult as possible. KTM would have to turn over a new leaf in this regard and reliability to renew my interest and the interest of many previous owners and fans that have just had more then enough of the KTM 'ready to race' personal enrichment experience (which more accurately might be 'still getting ready to race'... Their new motto needs to be 'ready to ride'...

    Well you've flown in airplanes? Most of them land on single sided swing arms, or even frailer looking single sided struts. The asymmetry of the design does not have to be a weakness; in fact they can be torsionally as stiff and strong as a conventional arm. Unfortunately some manufacturers (BMW) have thrown away cautious over engineering and yielded function to form, and concomitantly to failure.

    That was really more my point, if they can get to the same place (or better) using the home brand and save money -- nothing lost, and why not!? For me to get really excited about this bike I need to see conspicuously more suspension travel; six inches on a middle weight bike isn't gonna keep up with anything off road, not even octogenarians on Honda ATC 90's... If frick'n Ducati can get eight engines on the Desert Sled's less forgiving form factor; Moto Guzzi should be able to avoid emasculating the V85 for the dirt with boat trailer suspension travel -- come the fuck on!
  9. Hoak

    Hoak Long timer

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    Wholly crap toast! Does that paint scheme make the bike look like an old farts bike; or like Grandma's grocery scooter...:D
  10. WitchCityBallabio

    WitchCityBallabio Guzzi weirdo

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    All well and good, but isn't Marzocchi out of business now? I know the V7s use Kaifa forks now. The Griso on the other hand had Showa's. The Showa's on my wife's Griso SE were IMO better than the Zocchi's on the Stelvio or my V11 Sport Ballabio.

    I'll be surprised if the new V85 has less than 7" of travel after all is said and done. The Ducati DS has 7.9, so I would think they're going to want to keep it close to that, as that is pretty much it's direct competition.

    If you look at the picture looking from the back, the fork tube is very nearly half the width of the wheel to the slider. That would make it close to 8", so usable travel should be at least 7" maybe a bit more. Can't tell on the rear shock. I'd be shocked if they give it much less travel than the Stelvio.

    We'll see.

    [​IMG]
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  11. Dr AT

    Dr AT Long timer

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    I'm not convinced about long travel big bore adv bikes - you pay for suspension compliance with higher centre of gravty / more pitching etc. Give me good quality around the 6-8 inch mark, thankyou.

    Background :

    15 years of doung silly things on a transalp ( with ohlins shock and xr fork internals) , the moving to an rd04 africa twin and finding it harder to do those same silly things.

    I know I'm faster on ktm 950's with their shorter suspension than on their a models with the longer travel, perhaps I'm just not good enough to need those extra few mm ???

    BUT - the v85 doesn't look to have much ground clearance....I'll wait until I ride one to decide
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  12. OtterChaos

    OtterChaos Guzzi Sud!

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    In any case I'm hoping for big block quality suspension vs the small block V7/9 style. For this bike to actually work where they are promoting it the lower spec V7/9 range of components are nowhere near good enough.
  13. OtterChaos

    OtterChaos Guzzi Sud!

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    I'd be fine with medium travel on this bike, I'm not looking to take to the skies with it, just ride some rough and unimproved roads with it.
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  14. Hoak

    Hoak Long timer

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    Nope, still in business, Italian companies never die. They may however be more into bicycle suspensions now then motorcycle...

    I'll be surprised if they have more then 7"

    One would hope... And it's a fair bet Ducati will come out with a more serious middle-weight ADV machine as wel...

    Yes if you look carefully and measure, you'll get 6.2" -- or I do, very disappointing...

    That has far more to do with your spring rates and damping; there are plenty of loooong travel bikes that wallow less then street bikes with half the travel... Granted a lot of bikes ship with springs for a 135lb 'loaded rider' that make them more like riding a boat then a motorcycle -- I don't like that either...
  15. stevie99

    stevie99 That's gotta hurt Super Supporter

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    I find that I am always the limiting factor in off-road ability for any bike.
  16. Hoak

    Hoak Long timer

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    I'd like to see the v85 beat the Desert Sled's spec for spec on every count; and that shouldn't be difficult or make for a bike that's any less accessible on any level for those that assume more road focused intentions...

    upload_2017-11-9_20-55-50.png

    Here are the Desert Sled's numbers:

    73 hp
    49 ft lbs torque
    456 lbs wet
    3.5 gallons fuel
    46 mm fork
    200 mm suspension travel with 20mm sag

    Look where the V85 already owns this bike (and potentially every other bike that may occupy this space): more fuel capacity, lower CG, better fuel economy, longer legs, vastly more maintenance autonomy. It will potentially have more torque (maybe they really do torque tune the length of that intake tract), even though it leads there I don't care about power output if the torque is decent -- and if it is they're gold.

    But if they want a world beater 8-10 inches of travel will make this bike competitive on any surface with the Jap and Austrian entries that aren't even here yet, get a decent fat 48 mike mike or larger bore fork on there, a true WR transmission that can use the torque curve, and a first gear that's a real granny gear that will let you dirt donk, do trials pace exploration, and manage tight traffic without clutch abuse -- and no one will have a reason to ride anything else.

    The Yamaha and KTM already have known platform limitations, the KTM's Rotax plant delivers impressive power output but shockingly poor torque for the displacement on the Duke; it's doubtful this bike will be any more maintenance friendly or reliable then KTM's before it. The Yamaha pairs different limitations with cost cutting using OTS parts, including a very high CG power-plant with CR transmission...

    Moto Guzzi has a real opportunity here to lead -- for a long time! It would be nice to see them not squander it...
    dedave, Bain Dramage and OldRoadToad like this.
  17. Lee R

    Lee R Man in a Box

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    The current Africa Twin was a hot mess in twisty roads when I rode it a few days last spring. Fine at a mellow/normal pace but like a Giraffe on ice once the pace gets set to quick. That things suspension is too long for road use unless they stiffened the hell out of it.


    I'd be happy with 7" suspension. The 5.5" on my RX3 is lolz when you get much over 35mph on anything bumpy as it just runs out of travel and skip/bounces all over the place. I don't want the Africa Twins lanky mess though, that things a buzzkill in twistys.
    aftCG likes this.
  18. motrhead

    motrhead Travellin' Soul

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    I have seen both. Never seen either happen with a double sided swingarm. Quick changes for racing are probably the only reason we have single sided arms...fashion on everything else. I don't mind them, but don't need them. It's a minor point for me, like cruise control.
    Dracula likes this.
  19. ARDirt

    ARDirt Been here awhile

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    That's awesome! Don't think there are a lot of us.
  20. Hoak

    Hoak Long timer

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    Blaming a bilke's wallowy performance on the slab because of the amount of suspension travel it has is like saying a bike can't accelerate quickly because it holds more then three gallons of fuel; it's a non sequitur... If a bike with longer travel suspension dives and wallows it's down to spring rates and low speed damping not the amount of suspension travel. If you want sport bike stiff suspension you can always increase preload, drop in higher progressive rate springs, ramp up the low speed damping -- you can't go the other way with a bike that has limited suspension travel and get more travel without spending an enormous amount of money to do it. I will concede many DS bikes ship with spring rates that are absurdly soft and offer hideous performance with their longer travel suspensions (on road and off just read the appropriate sub-forums) but it clear some here have never ridden a bike with properly setup long travel suspension for road biased riding; which is a shame as there are road handling advantages to be had on the slab as well... TT bikes wouldn't be experimenting with it if it was such a horrible idea...
    Lupin 3rd likes this.