MotoGP: Misano 2 (Arrivederci, Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Racing' started by yooperbikemike, Oct 20, 2021.

  1. PeterW

    PeterW Long timer

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    Same laps times maybe but everything has got a little better as well. The bikes, the tires, the brakes.

    Racing is always about how you compare with the others on the day. I wouldn't call Rossi uncompetative, my suspicion is that he has other things in his life now other than winning races and without that extra focus he's a few places further back than he was.

    I don't even think it's age related - I suspect a lot of people would call that growing up rather than growing old.
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  2. drrod1

    drrod1 Long timer

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    Any racer, at that level (actually at most levels), is acutely aware of those they are racing against and will see what MM does, with the equipment he has, and his improving physical condition. I doubt they will be saying "Marquez who?" next year. More likely be thinking and hoping that the Honda is even more recalcitrant than ever.

    And he still won by over 4 seconds. Could it be that he saw what happened to the 2 in front of him and backed off just enough to ensure it didn't happen to him? No doubt, over the last 18 months or so, he has come to realize he doesn't have to win every lap of every race.
    Who was it that said it was best to win at the slowest possible speed?
  3. Oscar

    Oscar Acerbic Prick Supporter

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    Assuming that the track layout hasn't changed, VR's fastest Q1 lap at the first 2021 Misano race was (1.32.967) was not too far from his qualifying time in 2015 (1.32.358) (P3).
    I used the first 2021 race coz it was the same time of year as the 2015 race.

    The comparison for Mugello: 2015 (Q2) 1,46.923 and 2021 (Q1) 1.46.77 (so third row in 2015, next to last row in 2021).
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  4. Moronic

    Moronic Long timer

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    I've wondered whether Rossi just can't be bothered mastering the shapeshift device. Assuming his team has them. If they're activating them in every other corner, that's a lot of technique and it could seem pretty far from the roots of the sport. Those devices are bringing down lap times or they wouldn't be used.

    For Marquez to win another title he has to manage to complete most of a season unhurt. Let's hope he can do that. While I won't go chasing specific examples, it seems often the case that after a long run of good luck in this business, bad luck strikes more than once.
  5. HarveyMushman

    HarveyMushman Long timer Supporter

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    He has improved, generally, particularly in race pace. But not enough to keep up with the competition, especially considering his poor qualifying performance, which has suffered since they switched to the Q1/Q2 format.
  6. wpbarlow

    wpbarlow Long timer Supporter

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    At the risk of being label a fanboi rather than an observer of (what seems) the obvious- cast you mind back about 15 years ago. Remember? We had four riders who were labeled "aliens" because of their uncanny ability to master MotoGP bikes. The rest of the field unquestionably had abilities far above the norm; but all things considered, one of the 4 were going to win pretty much every race day.

    Now, I believe we have (and have had for a few years) only 1 real alien, and when he's reasonably healthy the rest of the field win only by exception. As in "MM would have won, except his tire went away"; or "MM easily had the field covered, except he crashed in the oil that what's his name bike left on the track; or (recognizing reality) "there was no need for MM to continue pushing so hard as he was already 15 seconds ahead of the field".

    And while we all know the past may not be prologue, maybe that changes next year; but I think it won't.
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  7. bikerfish

    bikerfish flyfishandride

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    I think we have many more "aliens". Remember, MM crashed last year while chasing Fabio and Mav, not while leading. Yes, the honda is a handfull, but it's the handfull that MM developed, so it's pretty much what he asked for. I think MM will win more races, but his domination is coming to an end. He knows he isn't invincible anymore, and the others are becoming faster and faster. Next year is going to be crazy, A LOT of really fast riders.
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  8. stokerel

    stokerel Been here awhile

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    Rossi didn't give a shit all year where he qualifies or finishes races. He knew he'll retire and then he also found out he was going to be a father. So it was all going to be a parade year for him anyways, and after 26 years in the world championship he thoroughly deserves it. Most of the others weren't even born when he started 125GP's, food for thought.

    All admiration to MM, the injury has made him more human and it will most likely make him stronger. Next year the padawans are going to have to go through the master himself so it's on. Can't wait for it.

    On the other hand, have you seen any news on the VR46 MotoGP team next year? Any new lead sponsor now?
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  9. mpower13

    mpower13 Been here awhile

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    I read that as well and don't buy it for a second. It's all mind games. Watch his race progression and it's clear he is getting better each round. He was fast as hell on Sunday which means the ability is there. 6 months off to heal and train...combined with an all new bike. Marc doesn't even need to be 100% to win the title next year, so there is that too.
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  10. philipbarrett

    philipbarrett Been here awhile Supporter

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    That's a fun bit of detective work, let's pick Misano (or Italy) and take a look over a decade. I'm going to use FP4 (FP3 prior to 2013 when FP4 was introduced) as the benchmark as by then the bike should be dialed in but pace should be less affected by external factors by other riders;

    • 2021: Rossi 13th = 1'41.893" / Fastest (LEC) = 1'37.141" (4.752)
    • 2020: Rossi 14th = 1'42.553" / Fastest (OLI) = 1'41.573" (.98)
    • 2019: Rossi 6th = 1'33.750 / Fastest (MAR) = 1'33.265" (.485)
    • 2018: Rossi 5th = 1'33.117 / Fastest (VIN) = 1'33.069" (.048)
    • 2017: Rossi - out due to injury
    • 2016: Rossi 1st = 1'33.043
    • 2015: Rossi 5th = 1'33.419 / Fastest (LOR) = 1'33.063" (.356)
    • 2014: Rossi 1st = 1'34.079
    • 2013: Rossi 4th = 1'34.447" / Fastest (MAR) = 1'33.912" (.535)
    • 2012: Rossi (FP3) 2nd = 1'43.452" / Fastest (BAU) = 1'43.392 (.06)
    • 2011: Rossi (FP3) 12th = 1'34.993" / Fastest (STO) = 1'33.567" (1.426)
    Note that the Bridgestone era ended in 2015

    Obviously this is one track & one session so scientific it is certainly not & feel free to draw your own conclusions. However, I was actually surprised at the consistency, with the exception of 2011 (1st year on the Ducati) and 2017 (following his crash), his times are close until you get to '21 which was a damp track on slicks.

    I'm going to say inconclusive on the theory as up until 2020, the gap and the placing kept somewhat in line & nothing "dramatic" sticks out. To use race data for these claims you would have to ignore too many other factors such as other riders holding him up, crashes and the like.
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  11. philipbarrett

    philipbarrett Been here awhile Supporter

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    I admire your passion for the guy. Whatever happens, 2022 is going to be great!
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  12. mpower13

    mpower13 Been here awhile

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    You make it sound like Marc was slow and desperately chasing. He was leading the race early on and had that crazy save but he had to run off track. He rejoined in freaking 18th place with 21 laps to go. He made it back up to 3rd right behind Mav in 2nd place. His lap times as he was slicing through the field were 4 tenths faster than the leader Fabio. If anything, Marc was showing how dominant and in another league he was. Had he not ran over the inside curb and wrecked he would have finished 2nd, won the title in 2020 and this year.

    I'm not even a MM fan but the MF'er is in another league.
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  13. mpower13

    mpower13 Been here awhile

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    What's funny is I can't stand the guy, but I ain't blind either. What have I become? I am feeling sick.
  14. philipbarrett

    philipbarrett Been here awhile Supporter

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    My wife is a huge fan of his, me not so much but I was & still am, prepared to say that he may well become the GOAT. I also think the crash (and perhaps some maturity) has made him a little more open and personable. I can enjoy a race for many reasons, we all like the cut and thrust of a close fought battle but I can also appreciate the master class of someone out front nailing lap after lap, corner after corner to take the win.

    I dislike the term "aliens" though as I think it diminishes the incredible hard work everyone of these riders puts into racing on & off the bike. They are blessed with supreme talent but are human like the rest of us, that talent gets you 10% there, the other 90% is pure application to the task.
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  15. swimmer

    swimmer armchair asshole

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    The one thing that's been consistent about Rossi over the last few years is his horrible start technique compared to most of the other riders. He's always letting the front wheel come up too much which means the bike's power gets cut excessively compared to others during the start. I don't know why it seems like no effort has been made over the years to correct this. Is it his size? Most of the other rides keep their feet closer to or on the pegs at the start and stay scrunched over the bike. Rossi's legs dangle out the back, dragster style, reducing the amount of weight over the front of the bike and his wheel comes up. And, while his bike is accelerating like mad he's got to pull his feet up to the pegs while pulling on the bars. I've watch his starts instead of the leading guys for the first couple of seconds of most of the races this year and it's the same thing every time. Given the attention to detail the top teams put into everything, I can only think I am missing/unaware of something that makes it necessary for Rossi to stick with this technique. There was another rider towards the front of the grid last weekend that employed this legs out the back technique and it didn't do him any favors either if I recall. Can't remember who it was but I think it was also a taller rider. Maybe its the difference between riders who start with both feet on the ground or those that start with one foot on the ground.
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  16. Gone Troppo

    Gone Troppo Somewhat bemused observer

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    Quite a few riders tend to start with both feet on the ground....I was always taught to keep the left foot on the peg to enable gear changes...and to get my right foot up ASAP.

    :dunno
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  17. Mr. Ray

    Mr. Ray Glistening Shaft Supporter

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    In the dirt, with powerful bikes and limited traction, both feet down and both feet swinging up and forward at the same time yields the best takeoff for most people. This approach limits irregular peg inputs that can cause swerving on takeoff. I've never raced on pavement.
  18. BOOTLACE

    BOOTLACE Bikie Scum. Supporter

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  19. zerohype

    zerohype Long timer

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    I find it amusing that a couple of you state your opinion, like you just talked to the rider to get their input. Then posting it. Neither of you know why Rossi has raced the way he has this year. Neither of you. You don't know MM93 either, yet blather on, like you talk to him daily. Sing his praise in acapella. Then state you really don't like him. Oh, the Iron E :lol3
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  20. JHof44

    JHof44 AlteredAdjuster

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    We only allowed to post facts now? I have an opinion about that.
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