Motorcycle Batteries .. AGM, GEL, Wet, Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4)

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by _cy_, Jan 20, 2012.

  1. TheGr8Pumpkin

    TheGr8Pumpkin Been here awhile

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    Thanks for the info also!
  2. Antigravity

    Antigravity Been here awhile

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    Okay this adds a another dimension since I know your bike.... With any of the pre-1990 Japanese bikes or Harleys we always tell people to look at and test their voltage regulators. Because a number of models that are pre-1990s have mechanical voltage regulators or due to the fact that it's close to a 30-year-old voltage regulator we can safely assume they may not be good. That was just and FYI.

    So aside from a potential overdischarge on the 8-cell battery you really need to look at upgrading the voltage regulator on any of those older Honda CB's. You can contact Dime City Cycles, and look into getting a plug and play new voltage regulator and you won't have to deal with any issues in the future.

    Here's a snip from our instruction manual regarding the pre-1990s bikes and Hondas.... it will tell you about charging it from an over-discharged state... but check your voltage first. It might not be to badly over-discharged.
    upload_2018-10-25_13-23-29.png
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  3. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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    So I have one for the collective.

    My frigging Ducati power draws like mad. Not sure which of the addons in the worse offender, but leaving the bike for three weeks is a battery death sentence.

    So I thought.

    I left the bike for three weeks. Come back and try to get it on my switched charger nada, the flash of doom. Pull it out of the bike and went to buy a new battery, to the tune of $200 bucks. Get said battery, get busy with work and whatnot and go to install it today? Yeah, through I grabbed the right part I was wrong, its too wide the posts are oriented sideways etc etc.

    Ok I screwed up. But I have a ride tomorrow and I want to finish off these tires before it gets real cold, and oh by the way that is a $200 battery in Japan (should have just ordered a Shorai)

    So get the old battery out and put a meter to it. 4.9V. Ahh getting threshold jacked. How do I get around this?

    welp
    received_331382394314007.jpeg

    So I connected the battery that is too big in parallel to the battery that is to low and put the charger on them both. The charger is presented with enough voltage to ...well work... and I may make it out of here in the morning. Its currently reading 11.6v and nothing is getting warm so maybe I saved it. Maybe not.

    I'm sure there is a reason why this is going to bite me in the ass, but I know enough to be dangerous about electronics, not chemistry, so let me have it.
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  4. SoilSampleDave

    SoilSampleDave Dr. Zaius was right!

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    If it works, it’s not stupid.
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  5. waylongway

    waylongway madmax Supporter

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  6. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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  7. DonM

    DonM Do-dah Do-dah Supporter

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    Who are the battery vendors in the vendor forum? Need one.
  8. Antigravity

    Antigravity Been here awhile

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    If you are just charging the battery and putting the two together just to get the charger recognizing it... then that can be OK... but if you battery was down around 5v in the first place the cell, whether lead or lithium, will be damaged and will loose the normal service life and if Lithium they usually suffer more when over discharged because they are not just a hunk of metal that can be sort of charged even when they are a bit damaged. But you might notice your battery failing relatively soon after this happens unless you caught it fast and it didn't have alot of time to damage the cells.
  9. Antigravity

    Antigravity Been here awhile

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    We are... Antigravity Batteries. Have some cool stuff and a battery that won't leave you stranded bedcause it has something akin to built-in Jump starting.

    But I'm just answering your question.... I know there is a forum member who takes big offense to me if I make any post about batteries. So he might report me as "advertising".... Oh well, you asked and I'm just answering.
  10. hb7

    hb7 moto-science : the king of motorcycle mirrors

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    My 3rd Lifepo4 battery is dying after 3 years of service, just like the previous 2 Lifepo4 batteries. About ~3 years of service. I used a Lithium charger at all times.
    BTDT. Lifepo4 is 4x more expensive than GEL and not worth it......to me. I went back to the cheaper/reliable GEL chemistry.
  11. Ste7ios

    Ste7ios Been here awhile

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    This is not normal. Is your charging system healthy or compatible with it?

    Did you ever let it discharged bellow 12.866V?
    keepshoveling likes this.
  12. hb7

    hb7 moto-science : the king of motorcycle mirrors

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    Lifepo4 work fine for about ~3 years and then suddenly get weak or die. I only buy the lithium batteries with BMS.
    There was one time I discharged it by mistake by leaving the ignition on, but I was able to reset the BMS and recharge it immediately.
    Not buying any Lithium batteries in future. GEL will last 5 years+

    I read about the Zero motorcycles are having ~battery issues......
    Wonder why they have not tried using a GEL battery array, sure it's heavier but probably much more reliable.
    I would settle for a ~50-60 miles charge for running around on electric.
  13. Ste7ios

    Ste7ios Been here awhile

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    Mine is in 5th to 6th year and it’s still ok. It seems to have plenty of life in it. Other people have similar experiences.

    On the contrary lead acid batteries doesn’t last with my usage more than 2-3 years.

    Something is wrong with your case but we can’t tell anything without measurements.

    See a comparison of some battery technologies to understand why lead acid is inadequate
    https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/secondary_batteries

    Zero uses different lithium chemisty: Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt (LiNiMnCoO2 (NMC)), not LiFePO4, which is more appropriate for the specific usage. You can’t compare them...

    99,9% of SLI batteries are not gel but AGM.
  14. keepshoveling

    keepshoveling DNF

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    Just curious, which brands have you bought?

    Also curious what your parasitic draw is given you're leaving it on a charger.
  15. hb7

    hb7 moto-science : the king of motorcycle mirrors

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    Bienno
    Battery tender
    Bienno

    No parasitic drain
    My last Yuasa FLA lasted ~6 years
    This will be my first gel battery ....

    the lithium batteries do not appear to be that robust .....IMO
    The bike is a 660 cc Yamaha big single
    Which has no charging problems
  16. hb7

    hb7 moto-science : the king of motorcycle mirrors

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    The new gel batteries have a buzzer which goes off when the voltage drops too low.....
  17. hb7

    hb7 moto-science : the king of motorcycle mirrors

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    Thank you for clarifying that zero is using a different chemistry. They are having expensive problems.
    I wonder why somebody doesn’t make a reasonable electric motorcycle with gel batteries ......
    Must be the long recharge time ....

    Attached Files:

  18. ttpete

    ttpete Rectum Non Bustibus Supporter

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    I have 3 bikes that all use AGM batteries:

    2009 Kawasaki
    2010 Ducati
    2015 BMW

    All still have their original batteries and all have no problems. They all are on Battery Tenders 24/7/365 when not being ridden. I see no need for expensive lithium batteries.
  19. Anders-

    Anders- 690R

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    Why bother with tenders, don't the batteries get charged enough while riding? Or maybe huge parasitic drain when the bike is parked?
    I've never ever bothered with tenders, regardless of battery technology... still get long service life.
  20. hb7

    hb7 moto-science : the king of motorcycle mirrors

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    New Gel battery has a buzzer which will go off when it needs charging........YTX12 size was only 37.50 delivered with ~18 months warranty.

    Comparable Lifepo4 size 240-270cca is ~$120 or 3x more.