Motorcycle Batteries .. AGM, GEL, Wet, Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4)

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by _cy_, Jan 20, 2012.

  1. Ste7ios

    Ste7ios Been here awhile

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    The best “indicator” is a permanent voltmeter installed on the bike like Koso Super Slim to ESTIMATE its status.

    It’s impossible to create a reliable indicator at reasonable price. (Read the thread to see why.)
  2. AlpineRAM

    AlpineRAM PartsChaser

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    I must admit that I know of quite reliable indicators that aren't cheap, we use them on bigger traction battery packs.
    They continuously measure the cell voltage and the amp draw or charge on the cell. These measurements correlated with cell temperature over time give you a nice indication of the aging of the cells.
    Measuring the battery with a load tester in certain intervals also gives you a nice trend and a decent estimate of current state.
    Nevertheless I was surprised by the perceived suddenness of the battery being too weak to start the bike. I know that the bike does not need much juice to start and the battery is oversized for the task.
    Maybe I should misadjust the carbs and the ignition on the ST, so that I'll hear my wife run the starter quite long...
    (Nope she would fix that ASAP, and I would sleep in the doghouse if I had one.)
  3. kickstandsup

    kickstandsup Long timer Supporter

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    FYI about the EarthX BMS...they claim over charge protection as well...see the Notes section...

    Screen Shot 2019-07-02 at 5.33.11 AM.png
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  4. Ste7ios

    Ste7ios Been here awhile

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    Thanks for the update. I wonder how they do it...

    Any owner here of those batteries and a permanent voltmeter?
  5. kickstandsup

    kickstandsup Long timer Supporter

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    FWIW, this is what the EarthX manual says:

    ETZ - BMS

    All EarthX integrated BMSs continuously monitor each cell’s voltage as part of the cell balancing and over-charge protection. If the voltage of a cell exceeds the others, the BMS circuits will work to reduce that cell’s charge level. This ensures that the charge level of all the cells remains equal, even with the high discharge (> 100Amps) and charge current (>10Amps) of your vehicle.

    A cell can be permanently damaged if over-charged (over-voltage) just one time. The BMS has circuitry to block incoming current to the battery from the charging system if the voltage exceeds 15.5 volts (an over-charge condition). Once the voltage level is below 15.5V, the BMS will automatically reset itself. The ETX Hundred Series batteries have enhanced over- charge protection; see the ETX - Hundred Series section below for more details.

    The ETZ BMS has short circuit protection, but it is not resettable or repairable.

    ETX - BMS

    The ETX series BMS has all the features of the ETZ series, plus over-discharged protection (completely draining the battery), excessive cranking protection, and short-circuit protection.

    The BMS disconnects the battery from the load if it is drained to less than 5% remaining charge (an over-discharge condition). An over-discharged battery typically has a voltage less than 11.5V. If the BMS disconnects the battery, the voltage reading of the battery will be zero volts. Excessive cranking protection logic includes temperature monitoring to limit“high current use” (engine cranking) to 10 -30 seconds in any 60 second period. If thebattery terminals are “shorted” (or a low impedance load is connected across terminals), which causes the battery volts to instantaneously drop to a very low level, the battery will disconnect from the load to protect the cells and BMS from damage (short circuit protection). If the BMS disconnects due to excessive cranking protection or short circuit protection, the BMS will automatically reconnect after a cooldown period (typically 1-3 minutes). The ETX series is designed for short circuit protection > 1000 Amps.
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  6. Antigravity

    Antigravity Been here awhile

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    HI All, Scott from Antigravity Batteries.

    We have a product that is probably the best product of its kind for this type of use. We came out with it recently. Its called the Battery Tracker. Its a Bluetooth device that connects directly to your battery, then transmits the voltage informatiion directly to your phone if you come within 30ft of it. Additionally is shows real time voltage without even turning on the bike but just being within 30ft of the bike, it stores ALL voltage data for the prior 31 days in a Graphical format that is very easy to read. It also has a Cranking Test and Charging system test.

    So to take this further it will show each time you started and rode the bike... and you will see the voltage, then the charging of the bike while you are riding, then when you turn off the bike and as the battery goes back to its resting voltage you will see all this. So you can look back up to 31 days and see if your battery was draining fast when you weren't riding, you will see exact the voltages your battery was charging at and how long your riders were for because it is documenting the voltage every day, every 2 minutes for up to 31 days. So for Motorcycles, UTV, Cars, RVs and anything 12v it is amazing.

    ADV is getting very strict about any posts by Vendors in the Threads, but I feel this answers the question that was asked and gives a NEW and better solution.

    https://shop.antigravitybatteries.c...s/battery/chargers/bluetooth-tracker-lithium/
  7. Grreatdog

    Grreatdog Long timer Supporter

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    I always used small sealed power equipment batteries in my old pre-electric start Kawasakis and Yamahas. They aren't much bigger than a couple of decks of cards. But they have enough juice to run turn signals and brake lights when the engine is idling. Any battery shop should have a bewildering selection of shapes and sizes from $10 to maybe $25. The last one I used in my XT350 did double duty starting my Honda push mower and in the bike.
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  8. zedXmick

    zedXmick Been here awhile

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    My OEM battery just died on my 2010 VFR 1200 ordered an antigravity replacement and their charger. $199.00 vs $162.00 for the OEM battery. Hope the new tech is worth the $ 37.00 difference. Wonder if the new battery will last as long?
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  9. Antigravity

    Antigravity Been here awhile

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    Which model battery did you order? I think it should be our ATZ-10 which is the same as the YTZ-14 OEM found in the VFR , just a tad short to allow more fitment options to all the different bikes.

    First off thanks for buying our brand, secondly if any problems you just contact us and we will replace/warranty if any issues in the first 3 years no questions. But you should get a very long life and if you ever leave the lights or ignition accidentally the battery will put itself to sleep before completely discharged... then you can press the RE-START button on the battery and will be able to Start the Vehicle... so you won't be stranded by a dead battery. But also that feature means your battery won't ever get discharged completely which is the #1 reason for any battery (Lead or Lithium) being damaged. This makes for a long life since the battery protects itself from damage.

    But most important is if you have any issue, just contact us. We stand 100% behind our stuff, and the RE-START models are the latest generation of our products and most advanced battery on the market.... so we won't tolerate it not doing what we say it does.
  10. zedXmick

    zedXmick Been here awhile

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    I did order the ATZ-10. I also ordered the recommended charger. Does the charger come with a quick connect port like the battery tender jr ? I looked for that info about the charger but couldn’t find any info. My order # 50068 and thanks for any info!
  11. Antigravity

    Antigravity Been here awhile

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    If its he Optimate Charger yes it does... the CTEK does not.
  12. zedXmick

    zedXmick Been here awhile

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    I ordered the CTEK, not happy about a $85.00 charger not having a quick connect like the $20.00 Battery Tender Jr .....no wonder I couldn’t find any info about the QC on the website. Guess I will just have to pull the battery for our 6 months of winter here. ( I never pulled the OEM out every winter just plugged it into the BT jr)
  13. kdstalker

    kdstalker Been here awhile

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    I read almost all the thread but I didn't really found the answer to my question!
    So in August 2019 it is possible to substitute the famous Odissey PC680 in a r100gs with a Lifepo4 without any problem and for a long trip ?
  14. Antigravity

    Antigravity Been here awhile

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    YOu can return the CTEK to us... they have a proprietary tip which is not the standard SAE tip like Battery Tender, Optimate and others... so send it back and we'll refund you no problem... I don't like that about CTEK either.... But alot of people like the CTEK charger. Any way we have an Optimate Maintainer that is about $59 dollars and you can get that instead of the CTEK, or we'll refund you. You won't need anything more than the Maintainer for the Motorcycle Battery.
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  15. Antigravity

    Antigravity Been here awhile

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    Yes absolutely... What you are looking for is the best fitment for your application with the most Amp Hours. Lifepo4 will cost more because Lithium is a more expensive material than lead acid. But the Lifepo4 will perform just as well as the Lead/Acid and better in starting.... BUT if you ride in freezing weather most the time you want to make sure you have a good higher Amp Hour Lifepo4 battery.

    The Oddesey measures...
    Dimensions L x W x H (in) 7.27 x 3.11 x 7.55*
    Metric Dimensions L x W x H (mm) 184.7 x 79 x 191.8*

    But from what I see the spec'd battery was a YIX30 also called a YTX30..... so you can fit a few different sizes in there.
  16. SmittyBlackstone

    SmittyBlackstone Been here awhile

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    I just tested out the restart feature yesterday. I have a bike stored off site and there was no charger there. Forgot about it for two months.... showed up yesterday to ride... the quartz clock brought the battery to the shutoff point.

    I pushed the button.... the bike started right up.

    I'm sold.
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  17. kdstalker

    kdstalker Been here awhile

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    Thanks for your answer.
    Sorry but I din't found the YTX30 on your site.
    Only ATX30 but too big: 6,5 x 5 x 6,89
    I also can read these words:
    Please note if you use older bikes from the mid 1990's and earlier you must update the charging systems to a modern voltage regulator. Damaged voltage regulators can over charge and damage lithium batteries.
    Has any of you ever made this change the charging system successfully?
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  18. bcgr33n

    bcgr33n n00b

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    Hi All,

    long time lurker and 1st post to the forum.
    im having trouble trying to install a bxxxery txxder smart lithium on my 2007 kawasaki w650.
    not sure if this is a correct spot to post my battery problem. if not pls move or delete this post.

    so, last week i found that my bike was cranking slow, and the gel battery on the bike is alittle over 3 years old. so i decided to try out the new lifepo4 battery many people are raving about. i bought the recommened battery from BT site for my motorcyle model.

    after installing, i turned the bike on and tried to start. heard 1 click, and everything shuts down, wont start, and wakes back up after a few seconds. recheck all the connections and ground. nothing seems out of place. and tried again but no luck. so i put a multimeter on and finds that the battery shuts off and drops down to 0v and then it will resets. i guess that the BMS system had kicked in and shut it self down for protection. below is a video,



    i couldnt diagnosis what the problem is, so i install back the old gel battery. and give it a go. starts right up.



    i find that the charge to the gel battery is around 14.7-14.8v at 3000rpm with warm engine. maybe the alternator charge was too high and made the BMS kicked in?

    thank you for any reply in advance.
  19. Gruesome

    Gruesome Alter Heizer

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    You might have to charge the lithium battery before installing it. Although, it reads 13.2V, so maybe it doesn't have enough current delivery capacity for your bike's starter?

    Your gel battery measures only 12.35 V before starting, so it is only half full, and needs charging. It should still be ok.
    For comparison,I just replaced an AGM (Odyssey) after 10 years. It was at 2/3 capacity (13 Ah left, of 18 Ah nominal capacity). This is after leaving it installed and discharging over the winter. Unless you left your battery for several months in a state of deep discharge, it should still be good after 3 years.
    14.8 V is right for bulk charging an AGM; don't know about gel.
  20. bcgr33n

    bcgr33n n00b

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    Hi Gruesome, thanks for your reply, i have charged the lithium battery overnight with the optimate lithium charger prior to install. it had 13.6v in it. i had no luck starting it for few times, and tried to just turned on lights and blinkers to warm up the battery abit before giving it a go again. that made the batt drop to 13.2v.