Motorcycle Batteries .. AGM, GEL, Wet, Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4)

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by _cy_, Jan 20, 2012.

  1. Don Coyote

    Don Coyote Long timer

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    I'd think price is the biggest barrier to adoption for these batteries right now, have trouble imagining people paying even more for something they probably won't need.
  2. JensEskildsen

    JensEskildsen Long timer

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    The info from earthX is available, but you have to look for it, in other subpages on their website, most people wont do this. But I guess thats better than most of the other brands.
    You wont find this info if you just browse their website, trying to purchase a battery.

    Theres still a lot of BS floating around from them, like increasing gas mileage, and the fact they list them as having higher cranking amps (which is only true under optimal conditions), they say they wont freeze, but fail to mention they will have trouble starting your bike at freezing temps.
    They also say that other brands doesnt have a BMS, and that you need to use a charger with built in balancer for theese other brands, thats just not true aswell.
    One of the things they highlight is beeing able to start the bike after sitting for months, but so will a leadbattery in decent shape.

    Again, the average joe wont know half of this, most just read all the things about beeing lighter, more powerfull ect, and go buy it.

    I dont have anything agisnt lithiumbatteries, theres a place for them for sure. I just think theres way to much BS out there.
    I bought a lithiumbattery despite many of theese things, not because of it.
  3. Richarde1605

    Richarde1605 Long timer

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    Some do.
  4. SoilSampleDave

    SoilSampleDave Dr. Zaius was right!

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    I have owned a lot of lead batteries over way too many years and if you leave them sit for months without being in a trickle charger, more often than not your bike is not starting. Every brand of lithium battery I have tried holds a charge much longer.
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  5. kickstandsup

    kickstandsup Long timer Supporter

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    My experience as well. I just spent 7 weeks in Europe. 2 bikes were on tenders, the Bonnie with the EarthX just sat. All the vehicles started, the 2 Yuasas on tenders cranked the bikes over just a little slower than normal, but no problem. The EarthX cranked the Bonnie over as fast as ever...when I first put it in, noticed immediately that it cranked much faster than ever before, and this was also the case after sitting for 7 weeks. I never even bother to charge it. It has been in the bike now for 22 months; the last Yuasa died in 18 even on a tender. My problem here is heat, not cold.

    I'm sold. YMMV.
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  6. Motor7

    Motor7 Long timer

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    Interesting thread. I know it's been years, but the price on the Li is now much more enticing now than it was when this thread started. Looks like I will upgrade lead acid this winter since it's been acting funny. It drops voltage quickly from full charge but still passes a load test with flying colors.....never had one do that before without adding another parasite.
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  7. ausfahrt

    ausfahrt mach schnell Supporter

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    This thread can become overwhelming. I am looking to possibly enter the Li-po world and getting an Antigravity ATZ10 for my 2007 R1200GS Adventure.

    The only thing holding me back at this point is will my older CTEK 7002 charger be compatible with the new battery?
  8. Antigravity

    Antigravity Been here awhile

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    We'd be please to answer any questons you might have... I think your 2007 may take a larger battery than the ATZ10 like the ATX12 but I could be mistaken.. .but usually the ATX12 is the one... you could also still go with an ATZ10 but it has a little less actual Amp Hours being a smaller battery size.

    As far as the charger, keep in mind Lithium works perfectly fine with 12v Vehicles while in the bike , but when using and after market charger you want to go with a Lithium specific one. The reason being is that lead acid tends to cycle the Lithium Batteries more, and can over charge them if the Lead/Acid Charger goes into Desulfate mode which is a mode that spikes the voltage to remove sulfate from a Lead/Acid Battery. Lithium won't sulfate so this spiking voltage is not necessary and can damage a Lithium Battery. Also at the end of the Charge cycle Lead/Acid chargers tend to go on and off more there for cycling the battery excessively if on a Lithium Battery which is not necessary. Last if a Lithium battery is deeply over-discharged, (which can't happen on our Re-Start battery) and then you stick it on a lead acid charger, it can start charging this over-discharged lithium too fast creating over-heating in the battery.... which is NOT good, but that is for the older varients of Lithium Batteries that didn't have the protections like the newer Re-Start model. Anyway that is why to use a Lithium specific battery charger... a good lithium charger knows to massage the Lithium gently from a deep over discharge....
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  9. kickstandsup

    kickstandsup Long timer Supporter

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    I'm not familiar with the CTEK 7002, but I have a couple of their chargers and they all have a "desulphate" mode that will kill a lithium battery.

    That said, like you, and based on years of lead acid bike experience, I "expected" to hook up a tender on a regular basis, especially on bikes I did not ride a lot. In now almost 2 years of an EarthX in one of my bikes, that expectation has changed. If you ride the bike at least one time each month, you're probably good on a lithium with no charging whatsoever (assuming your bike does not have a significant parasitic drain). At least that's been my experience.

    And, according to the EarthX website, and my personal experience, a Battery Tender Jr works as a charger. Cheap, I already had 2, and when I did plug it in, I'd get the green light in less than 15 min. I no longer bother. The EarthX batteries have a built in BMS system that balances the cells, while riding, and if you charge with a BTJr.
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  10. ausfahrt

    ausfahrt mach schnell Supporter

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    Just to follow up, I ordered and received my Antigravity battery and so far so good. I'll probably order the dedicated charger next week since I'm sure that this won't be my last lithium battery. Thanks for the response.
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  11. ChasM

    ChasM Been here awhile

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    Note that the Battery Tender 800 Jr is designed for Li batteries. While the older Battery Tenders will work with Li, they are not nearly as 'efficient' as the 800 Jr.
  12. Trailrider200

    Trailrider200 Long timer

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    really, u want the cost to at least double and something else to fail. just turn the key, so headlight is on, to activate a cold battery. turn key off. then start. 1-2 minutes btwn each action.
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  13. ramz

    ramz Professional Trail Rider Supporter

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    That Battery Tender 800 Jr looks very good, but after a thorough search, I settled on the Battery Tender 6V/12V, 4A Selectable Lead Acid & Lithium Battery Charger and Maintainer for $66 from Amazon. The large amps (4A vs 800mA) means faster charging if the battery is very low. At least, that's what I infer from all the info I've been reading herein. And, I have other Li batteries besides those in my motos.

    One other point; the 800 Jr has a built-in wall plug that is harder to use in my garage due to my electrical outlets installation and the cord on the 4A unit will work better.

    :ricky
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  14. Antigravity

    Antigravity Been here awhile

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    Hi everyone, just wanted add a little additional input on what we touched earlier in the thread....one thing we tend to stay away from recommending in regards to lithium batteries is multi chemical multi selective chargers. Reason being the state of charge on a lithium battery is very important, if it is in an over discharged state (under 10v) it needs to be massaged up very slowly as too fast of a charge can lead to completely damaging the battery. This is the same reason you see warnings on lithium batteries stating "do not jump/bump start if over-discharged" These types of chargers, while rated for lithium and able to charge faster don't necessarily always have the ability to do it correctly and can put too fast of a charge through so be careful and thorough when selecting. Again, just because some will say they can charge lithium doesn't mean they do it right unfortunately.
  15. CKutzGO

    CKutzGO Been here awhile

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    I'm pretty sure I've finally killed my lead acid battery in my honda 919. I decided i was sick and tired of trying to squeeze the battery into the airbox slot for it, often kicking it to get it into place, even unscrewing the terminals is a pain because of how short they made the chord.. so i thought i'd get a nice small lithium and never have this problem again... turns out everyone seems to be making them in standard sizes and i'll be stuck in the same position anyways..

    Is there still a small option? keeping in mind i want to be able to use the battery for charging electronic devices, maybe heated gear. the standard yuasa that would fit my bike is the ytz10s. There is another standard size battery that's a little skinnier but it's taller and as I found out the other day, it doesn't fit.
  16. keepshoveling

    keepshoveling DNF

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    1. I've found earthx's customer service very responsive and helpful. I know @Antigravity posts here as well.

    2. Your battery has almost nothing to do with using heated gear and charging electronic devices. That's a function of the bike's available juice. If you've got enough to power the heated gear (for example) then you can have a teeny tiny battery and you'll be fine. If you don't, then you can have a huge battery and it'll get drained and your bike will die and you will be left cold and alone, miles from home, without a single solitary soul to help you and may God have mercy on your soul. Either way, that one isn't an AGM vs. LiFePO question.
  17. Don Coyote

    Don Coyote Long timer

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    Charging accessories are very relevant to LiFePO batteries, if your cycle has a minimally powered alternator, having a larger battery with more capacity will help you through periods when you plug in more items or run them at higher heat, and also if power production drops in a city while idling at stops.

    Also, in my experience if you do run the battery down, a healthy LA battery will recover with time, hopefully enough to turn over the engine a few times. A LiFePO is will just be dead until recharged.

    In this case, Shorai makes a standard LiFePO which is pretty tiny to fit small places, but would need close monitoring to accommodate extra gear compared to a larger (capacity) LiFePO or an AGM.
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  18. garandman

    garandman Wandering Minstrel

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    We have a NOCO Genius charger. Good for Li?
  19. ChasM

    ChasM Been here awhile

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    I have been successfully using Li batteries in both my street bikes and dirt bikes for many years. I know several people with dirt bikes equipped with Li batteries who keep maintenance chargers on their bikes all the time (24/7) while the bikes are sitting in the garage. While I realize that this is not necessary and likely not recommended, what constructive advice should I give them?
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  20. JensEskildsen

    JensEskildsen Long timer

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    Cant see it matter much, voltage shouldn't drop close to when the charger would turn on again after the initial charging is done, due to higher resting voltage of the lithiumbatteries.