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Motorcycle Batteries .. AGM, GEL, Wet, Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4)

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by _cy_, Jan 20, 2012.

  1. Jungle Man

    Jungle Man I ride motorcycles sometimes.

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    1987 Yamaha xt600.
    I was curious if the power tool batteries had a built in charge control. If I hooked it up directly to the bike, it would probably catch fire and burn my nuts off. I was hoping it would be a cheap and easy way to lose the lead battery since it isn't even used to crank the engine over.
  2. PNWet

    PNWet Long timer

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    Disclaimer: I am not an electrician, mechanic, electrical engineer and am not even an electronics hobbyist. However, I did a bit of research on line because I wanted to replace a worn out Baja Designs NiCad battery with a similar sized NIMH battery.

    I found a NIMH battery and hooked it up in place of the NiCad, which is directly to a rectifier. It's small enough that it easily fit under the seat. You might be able to do the same.

    I provided a link to the battery I used on the previous page.
    Jungle Man likes this.
  3. LocuL

    LocuL Gnarly Steward

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    Denmark - Jutland
    Mornings from Covid-lockdown Denmark.

    FOr years i´ve wished to go lithium. Both cars are lithium, though bigger(Nissan Leaf 24kwh and Hyundai Ioniq 28kwh).

    The earth-x has always been on my radar as the most trustworthy option. Being in Denmark the hazzle to get one is a bit to much. Being in Denmark and Denmak being world freaking smallest country, i never thougth of we have any manufactureres of a good quality lipo battery.

    We might have.
    https://truecousins.dk/products/jigawatt-lbb-s---mc.html

    Jigawatt LBB18S

    My bike is a KTM 950 fitted with a tuned RC8R. Problems are even bigger cause the compression is raised a bit.

    Not tested yet, need some fuel connections.

    Aaaaand my house need a french drain(house is from 1919).
    20191020_163353.jpg 20200331_125755.jpg 20200331_125833.jpg 20200331_125900.jpg 20200329_150129.jpg
  4. JensEskildsen

    JensEskildsen Long timer

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    You could simply add a capacitor
    Jungle Man likes this.
  5. JensEskildsen

    JensEskildsen Long timer

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    Greetings from Denmark aswell =)

    The Jigawatt seems to mix stuff up, they rate the specs of their batteris in Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) which are tested at around -20c, when they are most likely only Cranking Aps (CA), for which there is no industrial standardized test. So its more likely that the cranking amps are reached at +20c instead.
    They probably wouldnt pass a proper CCA test, due to how the chemistry works in theese types of batteries.
    So when they compare the specs of their battery, to a lead acid battery, they compare the specs of their battery at +20c, which is kind a best case scenario for starting, to a lead acid rated at -20 which is kinda the worst case scenario most people will ever experience.

    I've never seen how much better a lead acid battery will perform in warm weather, but most of us know how much a lithium can struggle at freezing temps.

    Earthx has a lot of information on their website, the even state that a lithium needs to be at around 20c to outperform a lead acid battery, and that you should't charge a lithium battery in freezing temps, but your motorcycles charging system doesnt know this =)
    This is from eartX, its only a 3 secon test, the standard for CCA is 30 seconds, which would make the lithium fall below cutoff voltage at low temperatures.:
    [​IMG]
  6. Don Coyote

    Don Coyote Long timer

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    Lithium goes to 11!
  7. LocuL

    LocuL Gnarly Steward

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    They might. And this is still a wild west market, regarding lithium standards for starter batteries. Of course i´m very subjective as i´ve invested a lot of money in this.

    SAE - 30 sec load at minus 16 celcius? Lithium will for sure be a slow starter. But as the internal chemistry gets heated the resistance will lower and it might perform better. Though i do agree at exactly what your point is. Lithium in cold environment, which is why you still should buy them as big as your bike can carry.

    regards
    Data dump is from https://truecousins.dk/

    jigawatt.png

    Attached Files:

  8. ildivvy

    ildivvy GSX750 fan forever!

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    Plovdiv,Bulgaria
    Hi to everyone in this thread ! I hadn't saw this thread and made my thread with question, almost in this area... The thread is this one: https://advrider.com/f/threads/unibat-ready-series-battery.1443440/ . What did you think about diferent mounting angle of AGM-battery :dunno? Is it possible to mount them in 90' or on its side without some/any problems? I allready bought this battery and mounted it before 2 weeks, but what to 'expect' from the furute? My board voltage is 13,9V under load (lights) (I have little digital voltmeter at board to observe voltage) and 14,1V without load and this is almost perfect to loading such a type of battery.
  9. Gruesome

    Gruesome Alter Heizer

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    I think the Odyssey specs say you can mount it any angle except upside down - but you should read the specs yourself. Also, if I remember correctly, the 14.1 V might be a bit low to really push bulk charge into the battery, but enough to top it off/float it. Again, you should check the specs. I think I set my solar charge controller to 14.7 V (which is the maximum for this battery).
    Odyssey link
    Odyssey charge curve post
  10. kickstandsup

    kickstandsup Devout Atheist Supporter

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    Earth X two and a half year update: in a word, perfect.

    I've posted this before, but a quick backstory. I moved to the Southwest 13 years ago, since then, I've experienced 5 "sudden battery deaths" from the heat. 3 car, 2 bike. FWIW, both bikes were Yuasas, the cars were a mix. Same deal on each one, all working perfectly, no signs, some on tenders, some not. Go to start, get "weirdness," i.e., lights flash, dash blinks, but nothing from the starter. The cars were pretty comical: windows go up and down, sunroofs open or close, chimes go off. A real Exorcist moment.

    When the Bonnie's battery quit (after only 18 months), an Earth X became my lithium "test" and I could not be happier. The Bonnie gets ridden 2 maybe 3 times each month, about 100-150 miles each time. More in the summer b/c it is the coolest of my bikes, less in the winter. Last summer, she sat for 7 weeks while I was in Europe. I literally do nothing other than ride it as described and the speed the Earth X turns the motor over is truly impressive, even after sitting for 7 weeks. Starts instantly.

    So far, very impressed. I started putting the AGM batteries on a 3-4 year replacement cycle b/c that's when they all seemed to die. Hoping the Earth X will extend that, at least for the bikes.
    SmittyBlackstone likes this.
  11. ttpete

    ttpete Rectum Non Bustibus Supporter

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    They're dying because you're cycling them, and that's because you don't leave them on a battery maintainer when they're not being used.

    I have AGMs in my '10 Ducati and '09 Kawasaki. They are the ones the bikes were built with, and they're still doing fine at 10 and 11 years, respectively. They are on maintainers anytime they're not being ridden.
    msahern5 and SmittyBlackstone like this.
  12. kickstandsup

    kickstandsup Devout Atheist Supporter

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    All due respect, no. They die here b/c of the heat.

    All my bike AGMs are on maintainers. The Bonnie's was "green," unplug, no start. Plug her back in. Goes green in 15 minutes, unplug, no start. Similar behavior with one of the cars, on a maintainer, green, unplug, no start. Just the crazy behavior I described above. I've been told it is b/c "a cell goes bad," but there's surface charge so you get a green light. Not enough power to start, however, b/c of the bad cell. What "a bad cell" really means is a mystery to me, but there you go.

    I see you're in Michigan. I never, ever had this problem in the Northeast, only since moving here, and in talking to locals, including dealers I trust, the heat is the killer. Like you, I would get very long AGM life when keeping them on maintainers back East. Not here.

    BTW, as I type, it is 103 degrees F. :hair
  13. greasespot

    greasespot Adventurer

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    So, I can't find a way to search a thread, so I'll have to ask in the open.

    My 1984 BMW R65 airhead needs a new battery, and having had good luck with Shorai lithium in my 2000 XT225, I am leaning that way. However, I read that it is the rectifier in older bikes (and importantly, those "older" bikes are much newer than MY older bike) that makes the lithiums get all blowy-uppy (scientific term).

    Anyone got a Li in an old airhead and have any words of wisdom borne of experience?
    SmittyBlackstone likes this.
  14. WJBertrand

    WJBertrand Ventura Highway

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    Check your charging voltage does not exceed about 15 volts.
  15. Ste7ios

    Ste7ios Been here awhile

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    Charging voltage must be in the 13.6 V - 14.8 V (AGM compatible charging system, ideally 14.4 V) and less than 15.2 V.

    13.1 V may work but it will charge the battery really slow.

    https://www.shoraidirect.com/en/faq
    WJBertrand and 16VGTIDave like this.
  16. greasespot

    greasespot Adventurer

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    If I end up with AGM, what is a "AGM compatible charging system"? And when you say "ideally 14.4 V" do you mean 13.6 V - 14.4 V or over 14.4 V and less than 15.2 V?
  17. kickstandsup

    kickstandsup Devout Atheist Supporter

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    FWIW, I'd call EarthX and ask, pretty knowledgable and honest in my experience.

    https://earthxbatteries.com
    ChasM and ballisticexchris like this.
  18. Ste7ios

    Ste7ios Been here awhile

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    Each battery type has a slightly different charging profile (voltage range). The charging system (actually the Regulator / Fectifier) of a vehicle must support the proper charging profile. Otherwise the battery will be killed by undercharging (=sulfation) or gassing (=electrolyte depletion).

    To put it in another way, your charging system is compatible with the battery type described in your owners manual.

    The charging voltage you’re reading with a multimeter depends on the battery status and the total load. Check your service manual for reference voltages and the procedure to measure it properly.

    To use any other battery type than the one described in the owners manual you’ve to replace the R/R.

    Lithium is fully compatible with AGM. Check the link in my previous post.
  19. b_rubenstein

    b_rubenstein Been here awhile

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    Would do nothing for regulating DC. A three terminal regulator configured to either regulate voltage or current charge levels appropriate to the battery would work.
    ramz likes this.
  20. JensEskildsen

    JensEskildsen Long timer

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    He wanted to get rid of the stock battery on a kick only bike.
    I suggested a capacitor as an alternative solution to installing a powertools battery, not to try and regulate the voltage/current with a different battery installed.