1. Adventure Rider Print Magazine!
    We're doing a print magazine this November - 128 pages of high quality adventure riding stories, photography and interviews!

    Click here to purchase a copy for $9. Limited copies still available.
    Dismiss Notice

motorcycle salesmen—is it just ME??

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by sshbsn, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. st3ryder

    st3ryder Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Oddometer:
    1,237
    But, in the final analysis, you did exercise your powers to stop and leave. You did not buy. Nobody can force you to buy, even using unprofessional tactics like that. I'd be pissed off too and would have given them proper grief, even perhaps making complaints to BBB etc or the manufacturer if new. But in the end, it's the customer who has all the power to say yes or no or even maybe. It's not armed robbery or hypnosis the way some folks want to tell it.
  2. st3ryder

    st3ryder Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Oddometer:
    1,237
    LOL...hey, you have the answers..maybe you should try sales and see how that works for you. :-)

    I don't know where you're shopping but I've never had an experience like that. I just usually say "just killing time" and am left alone. If a sales person wants to hand me his/her card, "thanks".

    I understand your dissatisfaction with not getting the price quote you want, but as I mentioned in an earlier post, that's not a wise thing to do from a sales perspective, to give a customer a price he can then go out and "beat". That just helps the other guys. But, if sitting down at the negotiating desk, that's when the BS *on both sides* stops because the figures are the figures, no doubts about that. :-) Sometimes, negotiation takes time, even days for both parties to be happy. But to walk into a dealership and demand their best no BS, out the door price...without making a written, signed offer with deposit, is just bluster. Not saying you did that, just saying. :-)
    Vistavette likes this.
  3. st3ryder

    st3ryder Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Oddometer:
    1,237
    Wow..."and the award for victim of the year goes to..."...read that over and tell me again how the sales people *forced* you into that situation? Nobody "screwed" you...you set yourself up for a position of weakness and then blamed them. ;-)

    From your perspective, nothing will change for you..until, you change your perspective.

    Why not assume good intentions and bargain in good faith? :-)
  4. Navy Chief

    Navy Chief Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Oddometer:
    2,087
    Location:
    Waynesboro, PA
    I'm not talking about asking for an OTD price to shop around with, I am talking about asking for an OTD price so I can get a bank draft to pay for the car. It was one price at the negotiating table, came back with a bank draft to find out that the OTD price was not really OTD of the dealer it was OTD of the negotiating room. When we sat down to do the paperwork they wanted to tack on more bullshit fees to pad their bottom line, I walked and bought someplace else the next day.
  5. ddavidv

    ddavidv The reason we can't have nice things

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Oddometer:
    5,443
    Location:
    Elizabethtown, PA
    This isn't hard but most dealers make it so.
    I'll repeat in brief the scenario that works for me and made a sale.
    Advertise bikes online at a reasonable price. I stop in and have a look. Sales person makes no-pressure banter and offers his assistance but leaves me alone to look at the bike if I desire. Test ride offered with no hesitation. I'm interested, so we sit down and discuss numbers. He gives me a number even better than the advertised price (this was just a nice bonus). No extra fees. No hating on me for paying cash and not financing. Here's the bike, here's the price, would you like to ride it home today? I did and I bought.
    That was it. No back and forth strolls to a 'sales manager'. No trying to steer me to a different, higher priced/higher profit margin machine. "Sue will take care of the paperwork. What size t-shirt would you like?" It was the easiest and most pleasant purchase experience at a dealership I've ever had (and I'd pretty much sworn them off after my wife's Jeep purchase). I'm proud to display the dealer's name on a license plate frame as a result. The Jeep dealer's tag got thrown in the trash as soon as I got home. I never recommend the Jeep store to anyone (in fact, will usually deter anyone from visiting there). The bike dealer I promote to anyone interested in their brands.

    There is a way this can work but most dealers are hell bent on making it not work in the eternal quest to make a killing on each and every sale.

    ETA: I frequently encounter other riders who have bought at the same dealership. It is often surprising how far away they have traveled to purchase there. I also avoided two dealerships closer to me to shop there because I'd heard good things. I also buy all my parts from them and cheerfully pay reasonable shipping instead of traveling to the local superstore (who doesn't stock what I need anyway).
  6. CROSSBOLT

    CROSSBOLT Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2018
    Oddometer:
    770
    Location:
    Hillville, TN
    Have been properly directed, counseled and advised by Chiefs for 17 years, ten and one-half months and keep running into Chiefs who still have good advice!
    Navy Chief and phillyrube like this.
  7. Shadowed_Stranger

    Shadowed_Stranger Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Oddometer:
    116
    Location:
    Vegas
    Obvious troll is obvious. The fact that I believed them enough to put myself in that situation shows that I was the *only* one involved with good intentions, and they had none. By your logic, nobody should ever buy a vehicle out of state because that would also be putting themselves in a position of weakness.

    Only a salesman would say that someone taking them by their verbal and written word is putting themselves in a position of weakness. But hey, thanks for proving my point that almost every salesman is a dishonest crook.
    gjo and Khantahr like this.
  8. Shadowed_Stranger

    Shadowed_Stranger Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Oddometer:
    116
    Location:
    Vegas
    Please oh please explain how taking them at their verbal and written word isn't going in with good intentions, I'll wait. Regardless, preconceptions have exactly zero effect on them deciding to tell me the truth or not.

    I've spent half of my career cleaning up after sales dishonesty, spare me the victim blaming.

    "Nobody is forced to do anything. Don't like, don't buy: easy."
    Yes this is the typical justification I hear for any amount of dishonesty. Usually coupled with 'they should have read the fine print'. Neither absolves someone for deceptive practices, at best, or outright lies, at worst.
  9. Vistavette

    Vistavette Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Oddometer:
    341
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I've been in sales for a really long time, and was in the car business for close to 12 years. When you ask someone what you can help with, the answer is almost always "just looking"...and they were just looking, they were usually just looking to buy something. Had I ran away and hid as you suggest here I would have starved to death. Over and over again and again I made car deals when someone was just looking. I can also tell you that many of those deals were after some other salesmen was told they were "just looking" and scurried away. When somebody gave me a price they were willing to pay, that was never the price they were willing to pay, that was the price they were starting at. I'll tell you the other thing, if I ever gave them the price they were actually demanding, they walked out their feeling like they could have gotten a better deal. I always moved them up at least a few bucks, just so the client felt like they won.

    As a sales person, you're walking a very fine line between being an overbearing jerk and guidance.

    I said this before in this thread, but motorcycle dealerships are different animals than car dealerships. I'd operate differently in a MC store as the whole process and vibe is different for recreational vehicles.
  10. Big John Sny

    Big John Sny Long timer

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,935
    Location:
    Irving, Tx
    I had a similar situation. They took my drivers license to do a test drive. I told him clearly I was unimpressed with the car and no longer interested. He told me that he had to talk to his manager because the manager had taken my license. After the second time of him going to his manager and not coming back with my license, I simply followed him into the managers office without him realizing. He spun around and told me I couldn’t be in there. I ignored him and asked who the manager was. When someone answered, I told him I was late for an appointment elsewhere and needed my license back. He looked at the salesman and said, “well give him his license back”. The guy looked at me with a dirty look and pulled my license out of his pocket.

    Other than this one guy, I typically have great experiences with salespeople. I never did understand what that guys endgame was.
  11. Navy Chief

    Navy Chief Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Oddometer:
    2,087
    Location:
    Waynesboro, PA
    Based on that same logic I can tell you that over and over I have walked off of car lots without buying anything (when I went there with the intention of buying) because I was disgusted with the sales staff not listening to the words coming out of my mouth, so they lost a sale each and every time. Maybe if they could learn to actually LISTEN TO THEIR CUSTOMERS they would not have to be so aggressive to make up for the sales they lost due to being so aggressive....

    Truly listening is a skill, and from what I have seen it is one that very few sales people truly have. They think they are listening when in reality they are listening and applying filters based on preconceived notions to the words the customer is using. You are displaying an example of this in your post. You said "When somebody gave me a price they were willing to pay, that was never the price they were willing to pay, that was the price they were starting at.". If you were dealing with me this would be completely wrong, I walk into a dealer having done my homework and know exactly what I am willing to pay for a vehicle that is a fair price for me and the dealer, as soon as you start playing the game to "move them up a few bucks" I am shutting down and getting ready to leave. I am not on the lot to play games or spend an afternoon negotiating over a few dollars. I am there to make you a serious offer that you are either going to accept or not, sometimes that number has been exactly what the vehicle is listed for sometimes it is less than it is marked at. It is really that simple.
  12. Vistavette

    Vistavette Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Oddometer:
    341
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    There are always exceptions, you may be one of them. I was very successful, so while I may have lost you (but probably not, I was pretty good at reading the particular situation) I made many more sales than I lost.
  13. dietDrThunder

    dietDrThunder Why so serious, son? Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,620
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Yes, I am aware of that, but it should be. It's commissioned sales that makes it the way it is. In any case, it is a person's job as a human being to not ignore other people's best interest if they conflict with your own. Refer to earlier comments about fact that a customer is facing a coordinated attack by a team of professionals trained to extract every last possible cent out of them.

    Every human interaction isn't required to be a study in survival of the fittest.
    Shadowed_Stranger likes this.
  14. neanderthal

    neanderthal globeriding wannabe

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,017
    Location:
    Here, but lost. Am I lost if i know i'm here?
    Bought a new bike in Indiana, didn't pay tax in California when I registered it.
    Now, if you registered it in California you'd have paid CA tax. If you got a temporary tag and registered it in Texas (I don't think CA even does temp tags) you wouldn't have.
    Bought a new bike in Arkansas, with temp tag, paid taxes in California.
    Bought a new bike with temp tags in Arkansas, paid taxes in Texas.
  15. ZappBranigan

    ZappBranigan Still Riding

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,651
    Location:
    Littleton, CO
    :confused

    How would that even work?

    No matter what the salesman says, or does, or how friendly he tries to act, in the end, HIS goal is to get YOU to spend as much $$ as possible (to put a bigger commission in his pocket) and YOUR goal is usually to pay the LOWEST price you can and get the most in return for it.

    Your goal and the salesman's goal are mutually exclusive, so it would be impossible for the salesman to look out for your best interest unless he completely disregards his own. Why would you expect him to do that?

    The salesman doesn't care whether buying this shiny new motorcycle will keep you from paying your mortgage or buying clothes for your kids, nor should he. His job is to extract as much money from you as he legally can - that's what he gets paid to do.

    Nor should you care whether cutting you "a deal" is going to keep the salesman from making his commission or result in him losing his job. You aren't there to take care of him or to look out for HIS best interest.

    In contract terms, a motor vehicle sale is a textbook example of an "arms length transaction." In such a transaction it is presumed that each person looks out for HIS OWN best interest and neither party is under any "duty" to the other.
  16. wb57

    wb57 Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Oddometer:
    12,663
    Location:
    Central NC
    Had that happen twice over the years. The first time, I was young and didn't realize what was happening. The second time was a few years ago and it was pretty much as you described other than the fact that I had to yell at the guy in the showroom with other customers in it. This was after four or five times of "not being able to find the manager". This was at the largest Dodge dealer in the area.
  17. ZappBranigan

    ZappBranigan Still Riding

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,651
    Location:
    Littleton, CO
    And don't forget that Tru Coat!

    Vistavette likes this.
  18. Shadowed_Stranger

    Shadowed_Stranger Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Oddometer:
    116
    Location:
    Vegas
    All of you people that are getting 'held hostage' when they take your keys and/or drivers license are obviously confused. The sales people doing that did nothing wrong because you're free to leave at any time. If it costs you time/money/drivers license because they are being 'deceptive' that's obviously your fault for treating them poorly, they would never do such a thing to anyone that was being nice to them.

    Honestly, I'm disappointed in all of you. The salesmen in this thread already told us all that as long as we treat them with respect there won't be any issues. We should believe them, they are salesmen after all.
    DirtMedic and wb57 like this.
  19. Vistavette

    Vistavette Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Oddometer:
    341
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Hahaha. I forgot about that scene
    TurkeyRun likes this.
  20. windmill

    windmill Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Oddometer:
    6,360
    Location:
    Kent, Washington State
    While through experience, and pre purchace research I've become fairly well educated in what to avoid when purchasing a vehicle, but this is the first time I've been exposed to the candid attitudes of sales people in the mainstream industry.

    I will continue to do business with small shops that don't engage in such practices, but from this point on I'm sticking to competitive on line resources with set prices for all future purchases large and small.