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motorcycle salesmen—is it just ME??

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by sshbsn, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. dietDrThunder

    dietDrThunder Why so serious, son? Supporter

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    This, 100%.

    When you hear 'ya well customers are jerks too' remember that this is the environment they are encountering the _vast_ majority of the time.
  2. Navy Chief

    Navy Chief Long timer

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    There is no reason other than pure greed at the expense of their customers that dealers can not or will not post bottom line prices, if the customer qualifies for some rebate or other special offer it should not effect what the bottom line pricing was before the discount or rebate, they simply get a better deal. If it is a rebate then the rebate is paid to the dealer who made the same amount of money in the end, if it is special discounts then the bottom line price should not start x% higher to compensate for the discount.

    As has been said elsewhere in the thread, vehicle sales is the only retail industry in the country that gets away with adding fees like documentation fee and delivery fees to the bottom line on top of the advertised price, that game would never fly at the grocery store or the local hardware store. These costs are known to the owner of the business and are part of doing business and should be accounted for in the bottom line price, not used as part of a game to take customers for all they are worth.
    StevieMac likes this.
  3. DR Donk

    DR Donk Been here awhile

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    Reading thru this entire thread has been a real eye opener for me. When my wife and I bought a used car from a dealer several years ago, that is now paid for, we just did the old sign here, sign there routine with the finance guy assuming they were being fair with us. I happened upon that paper last night and couldn't believe all the :topes wtf fees we had paid! Never again!

    The problem was that we were naive and trusting and got caught up in the new, (to us), vehicle euphoria that was just a handful of signatures away.
  4. Barry

    Barry Just Beastly

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    Responding to OP first post...

    Yup - it's salespeople in general. Some are good, some not so good. I just bought a used Jeep Grand Cherokee. I'm VERY picky, but I respect the time and effort of of those supporting me, even if it is their job. I try to be a very nice customer. Dealt with 2 different Jeep dealers that are both part of a large dealership chain. First one, dude was not pressed, and struck me as not really wanting to take the time to discuss inventory, or answer wife's questions. The 2nd dealer, I had sales woman, we spoke on the phone, she impressed me. I went out to see a vehicle they have in stock. Took a test drive, haggled about 30 seconds, and took it home for a 24 hr test drive. Probably a done deal. So same dealer chain, 2 very different sales people. Is what it is. I can tell you, I vote with my pocket book. IF I go back to the first dealer, I will not be working with the same sales puke that I did the first time. Someone else will get any commission associated with my purchase.

    YMMV,
    Barry
    sloryder likes this.
  5. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    I remember there was a fee to do the tax, title, and license at the DOL. I don't remember exactly, but it insignificant.
    The cost and effort involved doesn't justify the 100's of dollars some dealers charge for it.
    wb57 likes this.
  6. ddavidv

    ddavidv The reason we can't have nice things

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    Straying a bit OT but here's one from yesterday I have to share:

    I'm an insurance adjuster. I totaled this gal's car, a 8 year old Nissan (actually in pretty nice shape) that was worth around $6 grand. She only had it 3 months before our gal plowed into it. Purchased at a large multi-franchise dealer chain in my home state. She was not happy that her car was totaled because she paid over $8000 for it. But wait...before you head down the path of 'insurance companies always lowball people'...
    $1600 of what she 'paid' was an extended warranty.
    She was financed at the dealer through Credit Acceptance which is where bad credit folks often wind up. Her interest rate on her loan (only $600 down from her clapped out trade-in) is 20.1%.
    :yikes
    This is a young woman who probably had no one helping her with this purchase. The stealership took her for everything they could and then some. I saw her loan paperwork and her total payments will amount to $18000+ for a car worth $6000. Yes, she made very bad decisions when she bought this car but how anyone can make that sale and sleep at night is beyond me. If she's lucky and also paid for gap insurance she'll come out of it with a zero balance...but no car.
    This wasn't a Buy Here - Pay Here dealer. This is a dealer chain that advertises sunshine and glitter farts on the local news shows.
    sixspeed likes this.
  7. Vistavette

    Vistavette Been here awhile

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    The so called "doc fee" is nothing more than profit. It has nothing to do with paperwork or anything else. The only thing California does that I agree with is limit dealership's to I think $45 on those. It might be a bit more now. Oh, and they don't pay the salesman on the fee either.
  8. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    It was a family and friends group of about 8 or so people. They were a heck of a lot of fun when they came in. Wasn't like they always bought something, they were just fun people. We always tried to be fair on our deals. We had one guy who tried to undercut his buddies' deals with us. We sold ATC200S three wheelers for $1250 OTD, he came in and offered $1225 cash. I turned him down. I asked if I was willing to lose the sale for $25, I said, "No, I'm keeping twenty." If I undercut his buddies' deal I'd likely never sell another to any of them, because he'd brag. I lost one to gain several more.


    In Ohio dealers have to follow the DOT laws. They have to keep records for 7 years on every vehicle sold, the cost of which is a doc fee. Plus they have to run the titles on vehicles they sell so as to have record of the transactions. We had a $90 charge when state limit was $250. We couldn't have given you the MSO on any titled machine even if we wanted to, it is illegal to do so. Your state may vary.

    Of course I am sure you work for free and would gladly take up half your garage to store paperwork required by the state for free. Right? I mean you'd gladly type up titles and other legal paperwork for any local dealer for free, right? Plus you'd run your car to title offices for them for free too, right? And of course you would let them store all those records in half your garage for free, right? It costs money to run a business.


    If so, why go out of state and then run paperwork?
  9. husky390

    husky390 Long timer

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    LOL, you are being charged with those fees.
  10. telejojo

    telejojo Long timer

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    Right, it's built into the price not added on after you have been given a price..........................
    Vistavette likes this.
  11. appliance57

    appliance57 Long timer Supporter

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    Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize: You're fired. Do I have your attention.

  12. Navy Chief

    Navy Chief Long timer

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    I know I am paying for all of that, I also know that I am paying for a portion of the rent and utilities to run the building. What I don't need is to go buy a hammer for what is marked $25 and walk out the door paying over $100 due to all of the "fees". Mark the item that it is going to cost you to sell it, anything else is just a shady game to earn a higher profit.
    MotoChris521 likes this.
  13. Eric1951

    Eric1951 Adventurer Supporter

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    When my family was in business, a book "Hey I'm the Customer" by Ron Willingham was mandatory reading!
  14. st3ryder

    st3ryder Long timer

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    It's just hilarious reading some of these "horror" stories about "salespeople" and their dark art of "rip-offery". What a joke.

    What is the most oft spoken caveat about purchasing...ANYTHING!!!!!

    "Caveat Emptor", better known as "buyer beware".

    So, some dumb plugs walk into any retail outlet, pay more then they feel they should for what they wanted to buy, and then blame the salespeople...oh my goodness, this is "victimhood" gone wild!!! As we all know, when people claim victimhood, they seek to absolve themselves of their responsibilities.

    If you don't know what you want, what is a fair price, how to negotiate, don't expect salespeople to be your social workers/care givers and give you purchasing therapy so you'll always pay the lowest possible price, so they can eat cat food and live in cardboard boxes.

    Profit is not a four letter word, in fact it makes the economy go round. And where do profits come from?????? Anybody????

    SALES!!!!!!

    So please stop this nonsensical commissary, take responsibility for your decisions, i.e. stop blaming others/portraying yourself as the victim, and negotiate in good faith, after you have done your due diligence and researched the product, re fair prices etc. As I mentioned earlier: s-r-s... stimulus-response-stimulus. You are an equal contributor to your experiences.

    And to reiterate: if you haven't done the job, all you can do is speculate. You have no actual knowledge of why sales is what is what it is.

    Someone mentioned that customers walk into a sales system where trained salespeople are looking to rip them off, so that's why some, (not all that's for sure) give themselves permission to act like lying, underhanded, 2 faced, backstabbing, manipulative, soulless Cretans, so they'll get the best deal possible at the expense of others.

    But, do they stop and wonder why sales techniques are what they are? Why the sales experience is what it is? Maybe it's because that's what needs to be done when dealing with customers like those described above.

    Next time you go to your nearest dealership to gawk at all the beautiful products offered for sale, thank all the good sales people who work there for doing a great job and keeping it open, to serve you!
    eight90eight and husky390 like this.
  15. Vistavette

    Vistavette Been here awhile

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    I have watched this over and over again through the years. In the early 1990's when I started in the car business sales meetings were not that far from this!
  16. sshbsn

    sshbsn Been here awhile

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    The venom being spewed toward paying customers by salespeople in this thread says it all. It also explains why I had such foul experiences when shopping, which one again I remind you had NOTHING to do with prices or fees.

    As our latest salesperson so truthfully stated, “let the buyer beware!” They have made clear their true opinion—hidden behind their showroom smiles—of their clients.
  17. dietDrThunder

    dietDrThunder Why so serious, son? Supporter

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    She didn't get a great deal, but the warranty is refundable by law, so she probably came out ok. Apart from that. I'm with you 100%.
  18. husky390

    husky390 Long timer

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    I’m going to guess there was about 10 comments from salesmen out of 136 posts bashing them. So much venom, lol.

    Some additional thoughts/responses to some other posts I’ve read.

    There’s an old phrase that comes to mind, “A fool and his money are easily parted”. I was that fool when I bought my one and only brand new truck but It was what I wanted and I paid what they wanted because I found that price reasonable. If you waltz into any dealership or retail store to buy a big ticket item without doing your research, then you’re a fool.

    If you don’t like the salesman you’re dealing with, find another one. There’s no rule saying you have to deal with the first person that says hi to you.

    Commission sales is not evil. Sometimes that will get YOU the deal you want because they need/want the sale. Ripping people off for commissions is not a good way to build a clientele. Find a salesman that’s been working at a dealership for a long time.

    Regarding the comments about retail pricing. Some dealers have tried and failed with the “No haggle pricing”. Why? Because the customer walks in and still try’s to get a better deal and if they can’t, they’ll walk and go negotiate with a different dealer. The only way these dealers stay in business is by responding to the marketplace. You the consumer, has decided you prefer haggling. The dealers know this and respond by jacking up fees for you to negotiate on and brag to your friends about how you “beat them up” on the price.
  19. sixspeed

    sixspeed Put on the WHOLE armor

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    Whether a casino or a vehicle dealership, the house ALWAYS wins.
    ddavidv and husky390 like this.
  20. dietDrThunder

    dietDrThunder Why so serious, son? Supporter

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    100% this.