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motorcycle salesmen—is it just ME??

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by sshbsn, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. ddavidv

    ddavidv The reason we can't have nice things

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    Aside from real estate very few products are sold like vehicles where every sale is a price negotiation. That's the crux at what is wrong with the industry as a whole.

    Have you ever tried to buy, say, a pair of riding boots online? Exact same price everywhere unless they are a closeout model. The manufacturer sets the price and that is what they sell for. Vehicles should be the same way. Saturn sold a shit ton of cars when they first started out because people loved the no-haggle purchase model.

    There are essentially two types of buyers: the kind that loves the negotiation process as much as the sales staff and those that liken the purchase experience to having root canal. No prize awarded for guessing which group is a massive majority.

    The system needs to be shit-canned but it's so entrenched it will never go away.
  2. wb57

    wb57 Long timer

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    I feel kind of the same way about tipping servers in some restaurants. Just pay them a regular wage and build the cost into the menu price.
    250senuf likes this.
  3. ddavidv

    ddavidv The reason we can't have nice things

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    I'm okay with the tipping aspect for food servers. That is a reward for performance. I suspect if tipping were gone we'd have a McDonald's experience at most dining establishments which would not be a positive. If a person doesn't like tipping there are plenty of restaurants like McD's you can go to where it isn't expected. I do get irritated by expectations of tipping for people just doing a job, particularly one where I never see them, like hotel housekeeping staff.
    Shadowed_Stranger and Tall Man like this.
  4. wb57

    wb57 Long timer

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    Yeah, but where do you draw the line? Service people? Does that apply to auto mechanics, computer folks, etc.? Don't want to derail this completely, but if a high end restaurant is supposed to have better service, pay the servers appropriately. Don't dump that in my lap.
  5. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    Isn't it the primary job of any professional service provider to assist, and take care of their customers, not take advantage of their ignorance?
  6. Vistavette

    Vistavette Been here awhile

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    To a point. Some dealerships and some salespeople lack professional ethics but aside from egregious violations of moral and or ethical standards, profit isn't a dirty word and it's really not the dealships job (ethically or morally) to give away money and become a financial counselor to everyone; which is what some here have essentially advocated. The dealership exists sell vehicles, and make profit. A finance contracts clearly labels how much interest will cost you, what your APR is, and what your term of payments will be... There's nothing hidden on a standard finance agreement. Also, buyers orders usually very clearly layout exactly what you're paying and what the fees are. At any time during a process a client can walk away, or question the figures. And they should. Mortgages and other large purchases are no different. I walked out of more than one closing because the contract wasn't correct.

    The truth of the matter is, there's more available information to a consumer today than there has ever been in the past. With very little research someone can find out, essentially, what a given vehicle should go for, what type of financing options are available, and what if any promotions are available. And they should know what their budget is. If someone walks into a dealership, buys something, and didn't do any research, I really have no sympathy for them.
    Shadowed_Stranger and husky390 like this.
  7. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    I agree one should exercise due diligence before choosing a service provider so they understand what's involved and to avoid bad providers, but I don't believe one should have to do so to protect themselves from a almost universal process in the vehicle sales industry that's carefully orchestrated to wear down, confuse, pressure, misrepresent, and take advantage of the customers lack of knowledge.

    The concept that one should have to protect themselves from, and/or form a long term, high volume relationship with a dealer just to receive fair prices in an agreeable manner is reprehensible.
    DirtMedic likes this.
  8. shopshirt

    shopshirt n00b

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    If a dealer were taking negative equity on trades they wouldn't be in business long. I don't think I've ever seen a dealer absorb negative equity on a trade it is almost always rolled into the price of the new bike or financing.
  9. Vistavette

    Vistavette Been here awhile

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    Always... occasionally they eat one, but I'll never lose any sleep over that! Dealerships make money. Period.
  10. JRowland

    JRowland reaching for the sky Supporter

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    You’re not getting what that statement is about. Let’s say a dealer sells (round made up number) 100 new units in July. Units are all on floor plan so to avoid selling out of trust dealer has to immediately pay off those units. Now for kicks let’s say the dealer took in 100 trades that all had payoffs. Dealer has to pay all of those within the 10 day window or the payoff isn’t correct and they don’t get a title. Now let’s add all 100 buyers finance, which delays (processing) dealer getting paid unlike cash. Dealer is now cash strapped with payroll and overhead bills due. Dealer takes used inventory (that he owns and has title for) to auction to free up cash. No guarantees at auction but in this instance the dealer doesn’t really have much choice but to cut them loose because he needs cash. It never happens exactly like I’m describing but in a perfect storm the dealer can’t pay the creditor(s) and loses the dealership. This actually does happen occasionally.

    Negative equity has nothing to do with it, customer always deals with that.

    ’m not by any means defending dealers, one guy just made an absolute statement that the dealer never loses. That’s not true, period. If the dealers always made money hand over fist they would never go out of business, but they do.
  11. wb57

    wb57 Long timer

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    You may be referring to a statement I made, but I only referred to the transaction between the buyer and the seller. Dealer's cash flow situation was not a component of that.
  12. JRowland

    JRowland reaching for the sky Supporter

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    Yes, this. After you posted more I understood more of what you meant. In my original response I also brought up sellers misrepresenting the trades. Your feelings seemed to be that it is on the dealer to do their homework. While this is true, it still doesn’t make your 100% absolute statement true. Example, seller knows they have a transmission issue but change fluid right before trade and use heavy oil to mask noise or two frames welded together to make a new one hidden beneath plastics, etc. I was simply refuting that the statement “zero situations where the dealer got taken” is not true. Most of the time it is, but not a lot of things are absolutes. If you would have said there are very few times the dealer gets taken I wouldn’t have even responded.
  13. wb57

    wb57 Long timer

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    To that extent, you're right. My scenario is strictly based on the dealer having a bike he's selling. The customer has zero tools to take advantage of the dealer in this situation. Not bringing trades, floor planning, etc. into the equation. Just two people sitting at a table working out a deal on a bike (or whatever).
    JRowland likes this.
  14. Patek

    Patek Long timer

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    Not sure if the example of a failed car company is the best way to make your argument.

    Saturn actually dropped the no-haggle thing towards the end of their life in an attempt to save the sinking company. Too little, too late.
  15. Tool.Nerd

    Tool.Nerd An idiot that owns a bike

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    I can remember riding to across the state in a torrential downpour to trade in one bike for another, and a wonderful dealership and salesman made the trip worth my while, taking great effort to make the process painless. However, I had made it quite clear that if the deal went sour, I'd happily ride home and have enjoyed the wet miles and the day off without much sadness on my part.

    I've also had times where i was told a vehicle was in stock, only to drive a few hundred miles and arrive only to not see my desired vehicle on the lot, and the salesman that spoke to me on the phone immediately tells me, "No, you don't want that, you want one of these!".

    Not sure why, but that's a breaking point for me. I'll never buy from someone who tells me I want something different than what I came for.
    DirtMedic and Shadowed_Stranger like this.
  16. ddavidv

    ddavidv The reason we can't have nice things

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    The failure of Saturn had little to do with their no-hassle, fixed price selling technique. It had everything to do with GM's colossal mismanagement of the brand specifically and GM as a whole as it teetered on bankruptcy.
  17. Navy Chief

    Navy Chief Long timer

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    Had that happen when I was shopping for my VW Jetta, called the dealer who had the exact car I wanted listed, salesman confirmed it was on the lot and available. I drove 2 hours to get to the dealer only to find that the car was not there and had been sold the previous week (according to the sales manager). Salesman was actually surprised when I told him to go fuck himself and left, he was very sure that he was going to sell me on something else after lying to me on the phone to get me through the door. Wound up buying from another dealer a couple of days later, great experience as the salesperson actually listened to exactly what I wanted and took the time to find it at another dealer out of state and get it transferred so I could purchase from them.
  18. Patek

    Patek Long timer

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    While true (I was in the industry at the time) there has not been a company that successfuly pulled this off. Tesla has a similar model I believe but we will see how successful they are long-term.
  19. OrangeYZ

    OrangeYZ Long timer

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    They are.
    There's a number on the windshield of every car or bike on the lot.
    You can write a check for that number and be on the road in 15 minutes, or you can haggle.
  20. zdc1775

    zdc1775 Been here awhile

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    In my experience that isn't true in most cases. Six of the last seven vehicles I've bought, three cars and three bikes, I've paid the dealers initial asking price plus tax and title fees. Two of those were cash purchases, the others I had financing prearranged and just had to sign the paperwork so the bank could issue the check. Of those only one was less than an hour total waiting on the dealer and it was one of the financed purchases.

    The absolute worse was my Bonneville, a no haggle cash purchase at the local multi line dealer, where I agreed to pay their asking price around four in the afternoon and due to the dealer's bullshit wasn't able to actually take possession until the next day. The only thing that kept me from calling that deal off was the fact that the bike was priced extremely low.