Motovation engineering

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by jaydmc, Mar 6, 2020.

  1. Prmurat

    Prmurat Long timer

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    When was it considered "ethical"to keep on promising 6-8 months to new customers when already paid one (deposit) are still waiting for a minimum of a year?
    Quality??? I bought "mountings" for my Vmax at Motorvation: 3 "universal" clamps (think Velorex but bigger) and only the 4th one solidly made. Had to send the rig to DMC to have the damn things put together the way it should be!
    I like the "Mum & Pop" type of business, specially for pie or a milkshake, but I think it is time we need real pros/industrial factories involved in our sidecars! DMC is getting there and I can only congratulate Jay for his efforts and endurance to bring better and better products (on time!!).
    #41
  2. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad Former World's Foremost Authority Supporter

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    pert near bitten plum through my tongue reading this stuff.

    I will say that blaming the Corona Virus for anything is fucking funny as hell. Better go stock up on TP, hand sanitizers, painter’s masks, and water before it’s all gone.
    #42
  3. FLYING EYEBALL

    FLYING EYEBALL out of step

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    It's like its a sElection year or something...hmmm
    #43
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  4. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    Yes WTF why do all these characters have to be neurotic about one sidecar builder ? :fpalm Come on it's a Ural copy built lighter, originally had allot of structural issues but has learned from past problems.
    No big stiff subframes it's all minimalist light stuff :hmmmmm

    The sidecar business in N America cries out for regulation as far as I'm concerned it started for me when I knew nothing and bought a rig that an alleged sidecar professional from the PNW has assembled (not DMC) it had over 20" of wheel lead and was very educational for me. Claude helped me out so when I bought again I bought from him. His are over built and heavy but easy to learn on. DMC's appear lighter and currently if lights what you want acceptable.
    In Europe the EU is involved, in most countries you don't sell anything that's not had an engineering or TUV approval, once you start driving the NL product the multi adjustable, camber compensated Ural clones built for us aging Walter MItty adventurers of Merica are pretty boring ! There's nothing exceptional going on here except sidecar manufacturers converting to trike building.
    Even the Bills with their CHS sidecars via Hannigan where a copy of French design.
    America is in love with let the buyer beware capitalism, price is the only thing that matters and ignorance is bliss ! :hmmmmm Try and be open minded DMC is not the final word on sidecars and Motorvation wasn't either. Having met Mary Sontag she didn't start out to rip anyone off anymore than Jay set out to build problematic sidecars.We're all products of our learning history.

    “The past is never dead. It's not even past.”
    ― William Faulkner, Requiem for a Nun
    #44
  5. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    1. Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods.

    2. A good politician is quite as unthinkable as an honest burglar.

    3. A politician is an animal which can sit on a fence and yet keep both ears to the ground.

    4. Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.

    5. Democracy is also a form of worship. It is the worship of jackals by jackasses.

    6. Democracy is the art and science of running the circus from the monkey cage.

    7. Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.

    8. Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.

    9. If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner.

    10. For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
    HL Mencken
    #45
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  6. Prmurat

    Prmurat Long timer

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    You forgot to add that no one in the US is ready to pay real price for a sidecar like in Europe where anything motorcycle is more a way of life than another toy bought, as cheap as possible, on a whim...
    #46
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  7. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    Thank you Prmurat :clap:clap
    #47
  8. mr.spui

    mr.spui Been here awhile

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    Come to Australia

    #48
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  9. rg sw wa.

    rg sw wa. Long timer Supporter

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    Dave, I tried to find a sleeping dog emoji, no luck.
    #49
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  10. Feo

    Feo Commentator

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    This thread brings back bad memories. About 20 years ago, I came close to purchasing a failing motorcycle shop. My potential partner (who worked at the shop) and I spent a couple weeks digging through paperwork and talking with folks that were owed money, trying to establish the value of the business.

    The biggest issue wasn't the debts (although they were the most pressing), it was the owner's habit of telling people that he'd have a job done in a week, when he had a month backlog of work already sitting in the shop. So the shop had a poor reputation. (If you called his nearest competitor, you got told "five weeks", and they were realistic about the time frame). A name change and a new sign were the first things on my "to-do" list.

    In the end, the day we were to meet with the lawyer to draw up a partnership agreement, my potential partner melted down and never showed up. Thereby saving my ass from a lot of misery.

    Reorganizing a failing business can be done, but feelings WILL be hurt, and egos will be bruised.

    I've blocked enough of the memories that nowadays it takes a six-pack and a little mota for me to get the whole story told, catch me at a campfire. Parts of it are humorous from the perspective of two decades on, just wasn't funny then.

    Saddens me to hear of another small business going through hard times, hope something positive emerges from the other side.
    #50
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  11. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    sleeping dog.jpg
    #51
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  12. bpw

    bpw Been here awhile

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    So who is left of the "Professional" sidecar shops in the US? I would be interested in not having to fab mounts myself for my new rig if paying someone to build them was an option. I had a not so good experience with DMC that left me dubious of their ability to do quality control (though they did stand by their mistake and refund everything), and Claude at Freedom understandably doesn't like building subframes for old stuff without the bike in his shop to check fit.

    Anyone else that is worth calling for a /7 airhead subframe or should I just get welding and do my best?
    #52
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  13. DRONE

    DRONE Dog Chauffeur

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    #53
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  14. bpw

    bpw Been here awhile

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    Interesting, didn't know they did sidecar stuff.
    #54
  15. FLYING EYEBALL

    FLYING EYEBALL out of step

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    You might try calling the nice folks at Hannigan Motorsports.

    Texas Sidecars would be on my list as well.

    Bob Wark also.

    You might try a wtb listing as well.
    #55
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  16. Hookalatch

    Hookalatch Born Under Bad Sign

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    Chris at Boxermetal does fantastic work and charges accordingly. He is usually very busy and it may be difficult to get a subframe done quickly. He is a friend and I am not trying to steer you away but don't totally discount DMC. Not sure what your issue was but my own experience with their Airhead subframe has been good. It fit well and has been working just fine for several years now.
    #56
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  17. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    Ok what sort of subframe mount do you want ? It depends on how stiff you want it and the builders philosophy, DMC mostly uses heim joints in the lower mounts and others (Claude and Boxermetal) use hard mounts. Since your mounting to an airhead you may not be planning on flying the chair and having too much fun. All the Euro builders use double shear hard mounting points probably required by law over there. Suit yourself.

    The way I like to drive on back roads the chair goes up sometimes, I like adrenaline !:-)
    #57
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  18. bpw

    bpw Been here awhile

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    Thanks, will make some phone calls.

    I actually tried to order a subframe from DMC for my R100GSPD, it was stout and well made but all the pieces where so out of true that it couldn't even bolt up. Things like the bolt faces that attach to the centerstand mounts were visibly not parallel and would not fit onto the bike. It looked like the welding had been done without any attempt to correct or prevent distortion from the welding heat, and then no one had even eyeballed the subframe to make sure everything was where it needed to be. This was after they had sent a subframe for the wrong bike first, some of the mounting hardware was wrong and I was going to have to trash the nice new powdercoating welding on mounts for the oil cooler since there was no tabs for mounting it to the subframe. I probably could have massaged everything it into shape with a big press and a fair bit of cutting and welding, but at that point I may as well build my own and save some money. I suspect DMC was having some issues at that point last year as Jay was not around and things may now be better but I would rather not go through the hassle of having to wait a few months for parts that wind up having to be returned again. However, DMC was good about refunding my money and taking back all the parts, so they are honest and I would certainly order off the shelf parts from them again and would consider a subframe if I had an explanation of what was going on last year and some reassurance they had fixed their production/QA problems.

    Needs to be pretty stout as my rigs get used on moderate off road and the chair gets flown. I am moving the chair from my r60/2 to my r75/7 and would like the new setup to be as strong as the /2 rig. A /2 conversion has been considered, but /2 rolling chassis are getting stupid expensive these days and I think making the /7 stouter will be cheaper overall.

    I can weld and cut pretty metal fine but don't have a tube bender, have been considering seeing if anyone would build me the bent parts and then send them to me for welding so I can do final fit up on the bike to account for any frame tweaks/distortion over the last 40 years.
    #58
  19. mr.spui

    mr.spui Been here awhile

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    You could buy a Ural frame very cheaply and graft the needed parts from the /7 to it. Ask over at Soviet Steeds for how it is done. Urals have the same mounting points as a /2 and are designed for sidecar usage.

    Mvc-009s.jpg Mvc-012s.jpg
    #59
  20. ZigzagguzzI

    ZigzagguzzI Been here awhile Supporter

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    Great idea!
    #60
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