Mousses and big bike???

Discussion in 'KTM 950/990' started by Pyndon, Sep 21, 2008.

  1. Pyndon

    Pyndon Long timer

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    Anybody had any experience with Mousses and big (heavy) adventure bikes?

    Wondering the best type and what sort of reliability they give in extreme temperatures and long distance off-road riding??
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  2. Johnf3

    Johnf3 Long timer

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    I've run over a few mice but just squashed them flat.:D

    Mousses on Adventure bikes, unless you have dirt bike sized rims, won't work, as far as I can tell.

    The only ones I have ever seen are designed for 1.6 front rims, and 2.15 rear rims. Even if you have proper dirt rims laced up, the density of the mousse foam is designed for a 250 pound dirt bike, and they replicate 14 psi when new. That's going to be a really squishy ride on a big bike.

    I think they would be pretty iffy on a 500 pound Adventure, even with the proper rims. Even then they would be off road only. Even on a real dirt bike, high sustained speeds will cause issues. I would imagine once you factor in the weight of a big adventure bike, you would have serious issues pretty quick.

    Mousses are the best thing ever for serious dirt bike racers because they completey eliminate flats, but I just can't see them crossing over to the Adventure side.
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  3. Pyndon

    Pyndon Long timer

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    Pretty much what I thought. I do have dirt rims laced for the 950, 1.60" Excel A60 front rim and 2.50 Excel rear with 606 front tire and 908 rear. Was worried about longevity though.

    Thanks for the reply, anyone got any experience with them on a rally bike or similar??
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  4. woodchuckexc

    woodchuckexc Been here awhile

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    I forget who makes them but I've seen a set up with a bunch of small inflatable balls. Each ball holds its own air. You can adjust tire pressure by the number of balls. This might work on your adventure bike. The only problem I can see is fitting enough balls to get the tire pressure up to where you need it for the big bike. 14psi is very soft as you probably already know
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  5. BLUE(UK)

    BLUE(UK) Long timer

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    I have Michelin mousses but in my 450exc and after about 2yrs and 3.5k miles ish they're going softer.

    Will you be carrying any of your own gear?

    What some people do is run a mousse and also put a push bike inner tube in as well so they can add as much pressure as they want but if this punctures,they still have the mousse to carry on.


    Tyre balls...........

    http://www.coreracing.co.uk/tireballs.php
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  6. Hair

    Hair no wants or warrants

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    If you doing any pavement riding heat might be an issue. We have heating issues with HD tubes on the road. Although it has not been as bad as when I owned a Tiger. For some reason those tubes would glue themselves to the tire.
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  7. Pyndon

    Pyndon Long timer

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    Thanks Hair, I run heavy duty tubes on the road and they are fine as long as you keep the pressures up. It's the ultra heavy's or low pressures that cause issues.

    Anyway, there aint no paved road where I'm going :D It'll be sand and rocks and thousands of miles of it :deal
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  8. Johnf3

    Johnf3 Long timer

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    No way. Not with any type of motorcycle tube. I'd love to see how anyone could get a standard bib mousse and a tube inside a rim.


    Now, Moose OffRoad products used to market a mousse-type insert that had a tiny mountain bicycle-type tube in the middle. It's been off the market for a couple of years because it did not work.

    Maybe that's what you are referring to.
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  9. BajaBastard

    BajaBastard BajaBastard

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    Have seen them in smaller machines, but there are warnings all over them about max speed 80 mph. Probably for legal reasons... but I don't trust them. I have also heard they (as well as Tyre Balls) are a real pain in the rear to do.

    I just carry one extra 21" tube (will work in smaller rims if needed in a "pinch") and a set of aluminum irons that weigh next to nothing.
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  10. Scrotie

    Scrotie Chuck U Farley

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  11. BLUE(UK)

    BLUE(UK) Long timer

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    Push bike = pedal cycle(non engine propelled).
    I have mousses in my 450exc and have changed tyres and lubed them etc quite a few times and i reckon i'd manage to fit a tube(NOT A MOTORBIKE TUBE THOUGH) in there too but its not something i'd want to do very often.
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  12. Rellik

    Rellik o-KAY!

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    Do we hear the faint sounds of a big KTM twin rumbling through the African Desert dunes?
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  13. Johnf3

    Johnf3 Long timer

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    Yeah, I missed the push bike reference. I should have just said the bicycle-tube-inside-the-mousse sounds ok in theory but does not work in practice.

    Back to the original topic...
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  14. CrazyTed

    CrazyTed Adventurer

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    I am actually a Tire Balls dealer and installer. They are more difficult to install than a tube but not as bad as a Mouse can be. Tire Balls does not recomend installing them in anything that will see high speed for a consistent time like street use. They won't warranty them if used in the Baja 1000 but plenty of people use them with great success. You can increase the pressure in a Tire Ball but I'd call and talk to them first before installing them on a big adventure bike. They were originally designed for offroad racing only.

    As for mouses, you are actually supposed to unmount them when not in use. You are also supposed to relube them frequently. I have raced with Tire Balls for several years and love them for offroad use.
    The guys with mouses also say when they start to shrink, they'll cut up an old mouse and add a piece in the tire to take up the slack in the difference after the shrinkage.
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  15. Possu

    Possu de-nOObed!

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    I remember watching Boormans Race to Dakar, eiher Simon Pavey or Nick plumb had a Mousse fall apart on them once they got on to tarmac & both the speed and temperature increased.

    Personally, I wouldn't do it if you're planning high mileage at speed?
    #15
  16. hilslamer

    hilslamer 2XRedheadedstepchild

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    A quick note, then back to work(Pyn prodded me...):

    I know on an XR650R, unladen for the most part, and ridden at SuperPyn pace they don't last very long. When I was prerunning and racing Baja on XR650R's, after a couple of weekends I'd put the front Bib in my trials bike front tire and it was almost indiscernable from the 6 psi I woudl normally run in a tube.

    I can't see Mousses fairing very well in an Adventure or SE.

    I do know that when Mousses would get soft, all the old desert racers I grew up workign for would put a bicycle tube in the well fo the rim, almost like a rim band, intsll the tire/mousse, and use the tube to compensate for the softy Mousse.

    Another trick to getting them to last at high speed was to put about 6 Zerk fittings around the inside of the rim, and keep that Mousse greased up good - it would sometimes come out the spoke nipple holes, etc and make a mess but it would also melt and get slung out to the Mousse/tire interface at high speed and keep them from melting together.

    Perhaps a combination of pneumatics and closed-cel foam like this might work for the Orange beasts? I don't know, but I would get a lot of experimental miles in beofre I trusted it anywhere desolate...
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  17. hilslamer

    hilslamer 2XRedheadedstepchild

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    You *might* be able to get away with running Tireballs in the front, perhaps with an assistive tube underneath like listed above, but the rear is out of the question...

    I've never run TB's any harder than 12 PSI before installation, and the self-healing valve they use may not hold pressures high enough to be installed at the 16-20 psi you'd need to support an Adventure steed. Also, at those pressure they would go from just-a-little-easier-than-a-mousse to PITA hard to install.

    :nod
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  18. Pyndon

    Pyndon Long timer

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    Thanks Tim.....no time for experinentaing, the desert is certainly not the place for that.

    ANSWER.....Go with what I know, heavy duty tubes rim locks and 25psi. It worked on the 1000 last year :thumb
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  19. Johnf3

    Johnf3 Long timer

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    Good conclusion.

    I love the 21 and 18 inch rims on the Adventure, but I wish they were tubeless. A simple rope plug patch kit sure is a lot easier to deal with than breaking down a tire and tube.
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  20. Pyndon

    Pyndon Long timer

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    Yeah but when your adventure riding, it's all part of the adventure. I've fixed enough flats on the 950 now to have it done in a jiffy.
    #20