Mutilating an offroader into some sort of scrambler

Discussion in 'Some Assembly Required' started by Dino de Laurentiis, Jan 7, 2018.

  1. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    The aftermarket base gaskets I've got here are all thicker than the stockers which may help; https://drriders.com/engine-assembly-t24634-s10.html#p272818
    Fast Idle likes this.
  2. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    That’s good to know. Not sure if I’m missing it but where did you get those? Otherwise, how about disassembling a couple of base gaskets and stacking to the required height?

    Also, reading your post (all of those should be turned into a manual btw!), seems that squish can be a bit tighter than what I initially thought. 1 - 1.1 mm should be workable, no?
  3. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    My 790 is <> 1.1 mm after I chickened out and the missus' 650 is now 0.85 mm. Both run fine without apparent issue.
  4. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    Considering the issues I’ve had so far, I really really want to err on the side of caution and run at least 1 mm squish.

    I redid the squish measurement with some 1.0 mm solder wire i had at hand, and with the stock base gasket squish comes to 0.68-0.71 mm. Also tried splitting a used base gasket in two, and while it is 0.25 mm uncompressed, it only adds approx 0.15 mm when torqued down, as the new squish measurement came to about 0.84-0.86 mm. With that in mind, two complete base gaskets _should_ give me the 1 mm squish I’d like. Still not sure that’s the best way to go though.


    Solder used measuring squish with the base gasket, at ~0.7 mm.
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    Disassemble, split base gasket in two and reassemble. Solder is held in place with some bearing grease, seems to work fine.
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    All head bolts protruding an equal amount meaning they’re all in the correct position.
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    Three layer base gasket.
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    Kind of hard to see that some wires have been compressed, but they’re all at around 0.85 mm, down from 0.98 mm.
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    JagLite, nuggets and BergDonk like this.
  5. mentolio

    mentolio King of the island of unwanted toys...

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    Engine is going to look nice in black!
  6. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    ProCycle got back to me saying that running two base gaskets is totally fine, so that’s what I’ll do. That’ll put squish at around 1 mm.
    JagLite, flinders_72 and BergDonk like this.
  7. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    Previously, I didn’t have the timing chain installed so had to remove the clutch and primary gear to reinstall it.

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    Also saw that DR650 guru @BergDonk recommends that some thread lock is applied to the left hand nut for the primary gear, as it’s possible it might come loose otherwise. Hadn’t heard of this previously so this was a good time to rectify that.

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    I’m now trying to the two base gasket (four layers total) approach to get correct squish height, but as it turned out, I only had 1 mm thickness solder wire on hand, so all I know now is that squish is over 0,98 mm, but not by how much. Will get some thicker wire tomorrow.

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    I put the flywheel on temporarily, to get the TDC mark lined up when checking piston to valves clearance. I’d have liked to put it on permanently but it seems I’m missing a shim which goes between the starter gear and the castellated nut on the crank so need to order that first.

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    I was on my way to check piston-valve clearance but as I had no good leverage point, without the flywheel properly on, I felt a bit unsure about the force required to turn the crank. That in addition to a vicious sound clank when going through he second turn of the crank gave me pause. Fearing I had bent a valve, I disassembled the head again but turns out it wasn’t even close. In hindsight, I think what I heard was the sound of the compression release mechanism on the cam shaft, Will do it properly tomorrow.

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    -edit- perhaps I’m mistaken on the shim between starter gear and castellated nut on the crankshaft? I was certain i had seen it in some micro fiche but now I can’t find it anywhere.
  8. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    "some earlier models, <=2000 OTTOMH have a shim washer between the rotor and starter clutch" https://drriders.com/engine-assembly-t24634.html#p272781
  9. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    Shop time seems to in short supply these days, but I did get a couple of hours tonight. Necessary to maintain a relatively sane state mind.

    First thing to check was the piston/valve clearance which seems plenty, unless I’d start to experience some serious valve float which, lets face it, is probably the last thing to worry about in a DR650SE-derived engine with a 7500 rpm redline.

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    After that, I wanted to check squish with four base gaskets, so for about the umpteenth time, I’m re torquing the head to 38 Nm (and that’s not including all the times I forgot something and needed to redo it three times over before getting it right. First time I tried with straight 1,04-1,05 thick solder wire but it didn’t get touched.

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    So, next step: fashion my own thicker solder wire by twisting two strands of 0,8 mm. Ended up at ~1,5 mm, so plenty. It compressed down to 1,15 mm, more than what I anticipated, and despite my fears of unintended piston and head encounters, I know almost wish it’d be smaller, haha. I’m not sure if there’s a measurable performance gain between 1,15 and 0,95 mm anyway, and if there were, I wouldn’t notice it anyway so I’m calling it good.

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  10. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    Warning: lots of pictures of head in this post.

    So as you’ve surely noticed I’ve painted the engine black. I was set on having the whole engine black but I wanted the cooling fins on the head to be highlighted/unpainted, so I ground them flat. Overall happy with the result, but there was one thing that bothered me. The DR650 head has a couple of vertical supports cast into it, to strengthen the holes for the two bolts coming through from above screwing into the top of the cylinder. However, since I ground the sides of the fins flat, those became exposed causing a vertical shiny surface to appear.

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    As I wanted to emphasise only the horizontal lines, I decided to ground recessed into the two vertical elements, with the idea that they would more or less disappears that way when painted black.

    so, I set out with a rough file, and got a result I wasn’t super happy with but as I couldn’t find any small/fine files in the workshop, and because I’m a bit lazy, I at first figured, “eh, fuck it” and left it be. Maybe when painting it over (with a crumpled up piece of paper as I have no brush), it wouldn’t be noticeable? Alas, it was.

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    I was going back and forth with myself whether I should redo it but in the end I realised it was a bit too rough even for my sometimes rather sloppy standards and that I’d be bothered by further on. So, I borrowed a set of what in Swedish are called “needle files”, narrower/finer files anyway. With those, results improved enough for me to be satisfied.

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    In the end, I think I achieved the effect I was after. (Head/covers only temporary put on as you can see).

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  11. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    I had some issues finding first gear after reassembling the cases. It moved smoothly but it just stopped while reaching for 1st. I was 99% certain I had the shift forks installed correctly but who knows what else could interfere, right? Then it dawned on me it likely had to do with the shifting mechanism. Especially realising that it’s probably smart to line up the blue marks on the two teethed parts. Once I got that done, everything was hunky dory and I can now torque up the flywheel without feeling uncertain about having to go back and redo the cases.

    A minor annoyance when reassembling the gear shifter cover was that one of the threads in the engine case got semi stripped, I think because some remains of thread lock or some kind of debris in there, blocking the bolt from inserting fully. My fault for pushing too hard, but it seems those kind of faults are occasional inevitability whenever I work on my bikes (NB dont let me work on your’s). In the end I got it fixed with a tap for the hole and a did for the bolt, along with liberal amounts of brake cleaner to force out the debris. Will go easy on that bolt though...

    Also seems I did a poor job of preparing some spots of the engine case before painting as it came right off when doused/wiped with brake cleaner :twitch

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  12. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    It’s always a bit nerve wracking applying the force needed to torque a nut to 160 Nm, feels like something’s gonna give. Here’s how to do it one handed.

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  13. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    I’m considering these headlight, though I’ll modify them to be mounted vertically (led version of the popular dominator headlight, with reflectors designed for led light sources):
    https://www.louis.eu/artikel/shin-yo-led-headlight-set-twin-with-side-mount/60157125#description

    I emailed the supplier and asked for some info on light output and power draw, and they responded that it was 12,5 W/1030 lumens per armature, regardless of full or dipped beam. Obviously, the low power draw is nice but light output seems really low. A good halogen bulb has around 1500-1600 lumens, obviously at much higher wattage but still. I’m not confident in the aftermarket LEDs other than perhaps those from Philips (but they have a big driver box I couldn’t be bothered with), but as a reference, those H4 led bulbs that ProCycle sells have a light output of 5000 lumens. I don’t need that much, but I’m also doubtful about an output of only around 1000 lumens too.
  14. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    Valentino is always watching over me in the workshop. Maybe that’s why he’s looking so troubled.

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    On my way to buttoning the engine up. Again, it’s two steps forward, one step back.


    I’m using the two halves of a base gasket I used previously for testing purposes, together with a new one. I haven’t had any problems reusing base gaskets many times (even reusing the head gasket has been fine the one time I tried), but this old one is just too worn.

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    Next up is installing the piston. The piston pin circlips that comes with the DR790 kit are massive, and a right bitch to install (the stock piston circlip are puny in comparison, honestly not sure why these have to be so thick). The kit comes with a dedicated circlip tool but it’s honestly not something I want to do unless absolutely necessary. The scuff marks on the sides of the piston show my struggles. The red stuff is oil, not blood, fortunately.

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    Installing the cylinder is also a bit of bitch, and without my piston ring compressor, I’m positive I wouldn’t be able to install it by myself. Before installing, I cleaned the cylinder walls thoroughly, always surprised by how much black stuff I can scrub off, despite cylinder looking pristine. A bit of oil goes in the cylinder to not scuff it up too much before starting first time.

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  15. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    Getting the head back is something I’ve done approximately a thousand times by now, so should be easy and trouble free, right? Right?! Install camshaft, torque the bolts to 15 Nm, some assembly grease on camshaft and cam followers, a light smear of ThreeBond 1211 on the mating surfaces, and together it goes.

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    I got this far, almost done and decided to check valve before putting it all together. Just to confirm. Of course, it was supertight, even after backing them out a ridiculous amount. Turns out, I installed the camshaft 180 degrees out... at that point I decided to call it a day and come back another time. At least I got to check if I used a reasonable amount of silicone.



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  16. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    ...but for fucks sake (spot the missing piece).

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    Taking a break until next weekend at least. Here’s a song to keep you entertained meanwhile.

    BergDonk likes this.
  17. Tim_Tom

    Tim_Tom Long timer

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    Keep up the hard work! I’m all too familiar with the one step/two step routine. Happens just about everytime I try to do something new... You’ll get it in the end, and have learned a whole lot along the way. Also don’t forget to have fun!
  18. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    Thanks mate! I will get there, I have already done these things a couple of times of over before. Just my mind has been elsewhere this weekend it would seem.
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  19. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    Back at it, assembling the engine as far as possible, if nothing else to keep all pieces in place.

    It’s interesting what you forget from having left pieces disassembled for a long time. I had major issues fitting the clutch cover, getting stuck with a centimetre wide gap, and couldn’t quite get what it was that caused it.

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    I had the clutch “pressure rod” in as far as possible in the clutch cover, but still wouldn’t go.

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    Then it dawned on me that the rod obviously needs to go in behind the clutch pressure plate, poking out into the clutch cover. With that out of the way, I now have the engine pretty much in one piece. It’s quite obvious now that there are a lot scratches and defects, still debating if I should give the engine another coat of paint while assembled. I don’t intend to keep this bike pristine but will rather ride it quite rough, so in a way the scuffs fit. On the other hand, it’d be nice to see it scratch free at least once! What do you guys think?

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  20. Roofchop

    Roofchop Hands up mother stickers, this is a f**k up!

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    Looks excellent!

    Get it fitted, any tiny marks can be touched up after the engine goes in (probably scratch it going in anyway!)

    Cheers
    Dave
    :beer