Mutilating an offroader into some sort of scrambler

Discussion in 'Some Assembly Required' started by Dino de Laurentiis, Jan 7, 2018.

  1. Kai Ju

    Kai Ju Long timer Supporter

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    You're not supposed to drill aluminum bars..........:hide

    Have you ever noticed that the right grip gets hotter when using that style heated grip ? Especially on aluminum bars.
    What I've done to alleviate that is to install a throttle tube, minus the part that pulls the cable, on the left bar. I usually secure it to the bar with a couple of countersunk screws near the switch housing (yet more holes).
    Instead of using the left side grip, I use another throttle grip.
    Does a nice job in equalizing the temperature left to right.

    Also, the solder joints on the throttle side element will eventually fail due to the constant back and forth movement of the throttle grip.
    My fix for that is to unsolder the wires and have them run 180 out from how they are stock.
    I run the wire the length of the grip opposite the palm, (you'll never know it's there) and have it come out near the bottom where it conveniently parallels the switch wires. That way the wire does the bending, instead of the solder joint.

    Hope the above makes sense...
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  2. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    FWIW I use some heat shrink tube under the lhs grip heater to achieve more or less equal heat on the grips. I've found that the wire on the throttle side does break too, as well as occasionally the solder connections, so minimising the angle that the wires suffer helps.
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  3. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    I was planning to do exactly what you say regarding heat. These only output something like 10 W each, so it’s probably necessary to make sure as much heat as possible goes to the grip and not lose it in the bar. Hate it when I lose my stuff in the bar, actually.

    As for orientating the heater elements it makes total sense, appreciate the tip! The wires are not soldered but “crimped”/pressed on, so cant make your mod completely, unless it’s possible to rotate the attachment points but I suspect I’ll break them if so. As they were something like 3 USD for the pair, I bought three pairs in total, so I have some room for experiments.

    Not too worried about the bar itself though. It’s 5 mm thick, and REALLY sturdy. I’ve in fact already crashed it a couple of times with a few holes already in place without any apparent issues :ricky
  4. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    I’ll be sure to have some slack in the throttle side wire. These are Chinese quality so I’m not actually sure they’ll last that long anyway.
  5. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    Still need to pickup some cables before I can finish the handle bar installation but the only store which has what I need doesn’t open until tomorrow. Meanwhile, I got back to the mounting plate for the electrics.

    First in paper (third mock-up) and then got started on the metal. Did all the holes (yes, I know a couple in the corners are off :( ) but left the cutting and bending for tomorrow. Way overkill with 3 mm aluminium so added a lot of lightness to it, probably enough holes to make even @waylongway proud...

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  6. Kai Ju

    Kai Ju Long timer Supporter

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    Almost looks like the makings of a bash plate...















    :hide
  7. waylongway

    waylongway madmax

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    :tb......:rilla.......:bow
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  8. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    Bashed it into shape today, it’s ok but lacking finish as some dipshit had decided to not clean the blasting cabinet before changing the media so now the glass beads are mixed not only with sand but also with soda. The sand is also mixed with generous amounts of soda making visibility close to zero when sand blasting...

    CDI-unit and m.unit is attached with rivnuts but I lacked the appropriate length M5 screws for the m.unit. The sensor hub for the instrument will get attached with double sided sticky tape. It only weighs a few grams and the adhesion of the tape is strong enough to basically remove the top layer of the alu oxide/dirt, gets visibly shinier after removal. In front of the sensor hub, I’ve made space for a controller unit for the heated grips (which I’ll crank out later with the help of an Arduiono) but for now, I’ll just connect them directly to one of the AUX outputs on the m.unit, which is push button controlled.

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    Also got all the cables into the handle bar. There’s a bunch of them cables coming out of it for sure, eleven to be precise (ground connections will be fused into a single cable before connector to main harness). Will be properly sheathed of course. Two 0.75 mm2 grounds going into each side of the bar, one each for the switches on either side (branching out to five and four respectively), and two more for each side indicators and heated grips.

    With the thinner cables in the handle bar, I didn’t have any suitable crimps, so I fashioned a cable crimp by cutting off the spade of a spade connector, using just the remaining crimp and applying heat shrink. On the left side I soldered the crimp after crimping as well, to make sure it stuck. I know it’s frowned upon but after installation it won’t see much load so should be fine in there. Obviously cabling is still mostly temporary and/or unfinished.

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  9. flinders_72

    flinders_72 Long timer

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    I always solder crimped joins, it's good insurance for this type of job.
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  10. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    Me too.
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  11. Kai Ju

    Kai Ju Long timer Supporter

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    Not to sound like a know it all, but it's actually not a good idea to solder a crimped joint. Reason being that you are going from a flexible multi strand wire to a solid single strand, large diameter, wire.
    This may eventually lead to the wire breaking at that location. Which is what I mentioned earlier about the heated grip installation.
    If you look at a factory harness, you'll notice that there are no solder joints anywhere to be found.

    Mind you, I just did solder joints in the lamps I've been building where I'm connecting the on/off switch to the lamp cord, but it won't be subject to vibration or constant movement.
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  12. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    Yep, I’m aware of the issues you mention but as these cables are static inside the handle bar, with no movement and no pulling forces, it would have to be some pretty vicious vibration for it too fail. Also, to be fair, the strands are essentially one solid piece inside the crimp also when not soldered.
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  13. flinders_72

    flinders_72 Long timer

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    It doesn't increase the chance of breakage if you just solder the crimp area. The only reason you'd get breakage is if your wiring doesn't have enough slack and would happen regardless of soldering. Vibration won't break it.

    Solder Crimped joints.png
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  14. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    I know I’m a little late with the Christmas lights, but good to know that at least some of the wires connected so far work.

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  15. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    It’s one thing when you mess up your bike because you’re clumsy, negligent or just ignorant. It kind of sucks but at least you hopefully learn something. It’s another thing entirely when someone else is doing the messing up for you, especially if you’re the one paying for it. That’s what happened to me a while ago, when I decided to go big bore on my Suzuki engine.

    But first things first. As some of you may know, ProCycle in the US of A has developed a big bore kit for the DR650SE engine, taking it from 644 cc to 790 cc. A pretty substantial increase to an already rather substantial thumper, nicely illustrated below.

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    It’s possible to buy the kit both as a iron sleeve to be installed in your own cylinder after the appropriate boring out. It’s also possible to buy a complete cylinder with the 790 sleeve installed and honed to the right dimensions. To save money on transatlantic shipping, I chose the first option, and had an acquaintance do the necessary machining. That decision, as it turned out, would be the polar opposite of saving money. I did get everything installed, it did ran ok, but I was decidedly unimpressed with the performance improvements. When I took the engine apart for a check after just 1000 km or so, I found what I thought was the reason. An incredibly strange wear pattern, but according to my acquaintance (who’s no longer a mate...), it was due to vibrations from the honing.

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    In addition, I also had very bad wear on left side of the wrist pin. In retrospect, that should’ve tipped me off, but doing stuff despite being ignorant has never stopped me before, so...


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    Of course, as the DR650SE conrod is press fit onto the crank, I couldn’t just replace the conrod myself, so instead of laying out for a new conrod, bearing, crank pin and paying someone to do it, I got a complete (used) crank from a breaker in Greece. It was a bit rusty when I got it, but at least the conrod small end was within spec. However, when I had the crank case apart, I decided to replace the engine bearings. I failed miserably but also noticed some weirdness in the crank case bearing spot.

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    in the end, I ended up buying a complete used bottom end, with just (supposedly) 230 miles on it, replaced the piston wrist pin, had the cylinder checked and rehoned, got new piston rings which I doubled checked for tightness and put everything back together, which was expensive mistake number two.
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  16. Wildebeest90210

    Wildebeest90210 Long timer Supporter

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    WISE PEOPLE NEVER STOP LEARNING.

    Apologies for English postcard humour.....

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  17. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    Engine ran really great and I can only describe the engine character as loads of aggressive fun with every twist of the wrist, nothing like lukewarm experience from the first time. Loved it! This, btw was when the bike was still in (mostly) stock SuperMoto form.

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    Of course, wary from past experiences, I decided to take the engine apart after only about 300 km. Sure enough, issues similar to the first time had occurred, though not nearly as bad as then (probably because I had apart sooner).

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    People cleverer than myself might at this point have taken the hint and decided that enough is enough and just parted the bike out. After all, that would’ve made the most sense. Not me though, I instead doubled down and decided to head down the path which has led to this thread, among other things.

    Fast forward to today, where I now have a total of three cranks, two with destroyed conrods and one in dubious condition. Th advantage to having all these cranks, however, is that I need not take apart the engine to get the crank properly fixed. I have had all the replacement parts for close to a year, and until today I just hadn’t gotten around to doing anything about it. However, today I offloaded my good bad spare crank, together with a cardboard box of replacement parts to local firm Eptune, which has been doing quality work for the past two decades or so. Hopefully, by next week I’ll have a reassembled crank with a fresh conrod and big end. Quoted price was even less than the quotes I had from a bunch of other non local places, so win win. Fingers crossed it all pas out in the end.


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  18. Wildebeest90210

    Wildebeest90210 Long timer Supporter

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    Balanced and welded? May well be worth it?
  19. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    We didn’t discuss welding and frankly it shouldn’t be necessary on the DR crank. Im also _quite_ sure that it’ll turn out fine this time as I’ve discovered the likely root cause of all the issues, main one being that my acquaintance who did the machining was a total jackass who messed up, both by making the sleeve uneven in the bore and if that wasn’t enough, it was also installed crooked (sleeve was just barely noticeable higher on the right side of the cylinder head gasket surface) so that the piston was riding crooked in the bore. I’ve since got a complete new pre sleeved 790 cc cylinder from ProCycle, honed to spec. I feel confident it’s fine, and I certainly hope I’m still wise enough to be learning. Just wished it didn’t take wasting a couple of months of disposable income to reach this insight...

    Bottom line I guess I don’t let your “mates” do the machining for you, unless they’ve run machine shops for the past 20 years or so and knows what they’re doing. Maybe not even then.
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  20. Wildebeest90210

    Wildebeest90210 Long timer Supporter

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    Just sayin, NSFW shot of my big end....


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