My Barn Twins

Discussion in 'Airheads' started by fxray, Feb 26, 2015.

  1. James.A

    James.A ILL Airmarshal

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    I have at least 1 o.e.m. oil pan if you want to put that "special" oil pan on a shelf
  2. Disston

    Disston ShadeTreeExpert

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    There have been a number of oil temp sensors inserted in oil pans over the years? It looks like an aftermarket oil pan? And both plug bosses look cast with extra metal around the threads. So the deep oil pan was used without anything using the extra port.

    That's my guess.

    Nice find Ray. Another fan looking forward to the rebirth.
  3. PaulRS

    PaulRS Dutch fool

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    Orange is the official house colour of Koni Shocks.

    In the days of old, all shocks where painted orange, later the m/c shocks got chromed, while the car's still remained orange.
    They even supplied F1 teams with their orange shocks.

    So your's are dated, as in old, very old. :D

    Today's Koni bike shocks are made in Oz, under the name of Ikon.

    Paul.
  4. OLD GREEN

    OLD GREEN Long timer Supporter

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    Great score Ray! That ought to keep you busy over the winter, but it doesn't look like it needs too much to be a decent rider. I know it's not too popular but I've always been a big fan of the color. It's nothing fancy but very dignified, perfect for a patina bike.
  5. fxray

    fxray Long timer

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    Fr8dog61, Jim K in PA, Thanks for the encouraging comments, guys.

    David, yes -- will try to get this one running without tearing it all down first, unlike the last time.
    You could be right. Anton's page says that the pan was deepened for 1976, but he made no mention of this second plug. It cannot be a drain plug, since the bottom of the plug hole is about 11mm above the inside bottom surface of the oil pan. It's puzzling that the plug high on the wall has a magnet in the end. So, if your theory is correct, the plug would be temporary until the return line was installed. In that case, why use a plug with a magnet? The regular drain plug doesn't have one.
    Charlie, the fiche only shows one plug, so this pan may be aftermarket. The drain plug in the bottom is the standard, allen wrench style. The extra one up on the wall has a hex head. Oh, well, another airhead anomaly along for the ride. The mystery adds character.
    Thanks James, but if I put this on the shelf with the other junk, it will be more stuff for the dumpster when the kids clean this place out. Might as well use it. I'm guessing it has been on there a long time. I will clean the sawdust and floor sweepings out first though. :D
    Thanks for that information, Paul. I have read that the people in Oz still supply rebuild kits for the old Koni's. I think I will take these apart, since I have the disassembly jig we made for my other bike. If they look O.K., I may replace the seals and add fresh oil. I'll likely depart from protocol and paint them black though. The orange isn't doing much for me. They don't worry me much about being old, very old -- I am too! :D
    Thanks, OG, the look is growing on me. I guess I'll have to keep both of them. What scares me is that this bike is cleaning up too easily to be the rain/gravel dust/never-wash-it/dirty bike I sort of had in mind. Here I go again!
    Uke likes this.
  6. OdyBandit

    OdyBandit Long timer

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    Just come out my way. Lots of gravel roads along the river.
  7. fxray

    fxray Long timer

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    After cleaning the oil pan, the brand name"Heukerott" showed up:

    [​IMG]

    So, this is a deep pan from Moteren Israel. It holds one more liter than the OEM pan. It looks like I have their spacer in there as well, to lower the suction bell, but I haven't pulled that out to clean, check, Loctite and re-torque yet. You can still order a similar pan from them for about US $150, so this is a nice thing to find on the bike. The pan would foul the standard center stand, but the Reynolds ride-off stand on here works just fine. I see a similar Reynolds stand on eBay, sans hardware, for US $100, so that is another pleasant surprise.

    The dipstick looks like stock OEM to me, but, at 287mm, it is 10mm longer than the one from my '74 R90 ('74 on bottom in pictures). I think the stock 1976 dipstick was longer and the stock pan was deeper. The aftermarket pan was a bit deeper yet.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    From Anton Largiader's site, "There were two upgrades for road models during the life of the 24x motor. In 1976 the pan was deepened slightly, and in 1981 the pan was deepened substantially and redesigned to include a baffle plate. Dipsticks were lengthened correspondingly, although the cutoff points for them are nowhere near being clear or consistent."

    This thread has a pretty good discussion of the reason(s) for a deeper pan till it gets into some supershaft mudslinging at the end. In there, bmwrench said:
    Also in that thread there was this picture that shows a blank boss on the side of the pan where mine has a second plug.

    [​IMG]

    I guess the second plug in mine is, as suggested earlier, for an oil temperature gauge or cooler return line, but was plugged off. The reason the plug is hex headed and has a magnet is because it is a standard airhead transmission drain plug.

    I haven't found the missing keys yet, but will keep looking. I tried the keys from my '74 R90, and tried two other loose keys loaned to me by lit67, but no joy there. That would have just been too lucky. :dunno

    Ray
  8. Pokie

    Pokie Just plain Pokie.

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    To me, there's no point to having a deeper oil pan without having a longer dip stick. Just adding another quart of oil doesn't really improve anything where-as getting the oil further away from the engine internals helps to keep things cooler.
    Uke likes this.
  9. James.A

    James.A ILL Airmarshal

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    It has always been my understanding that the advantage of a deep pan is to increase the volume of air in the sump to reduce the likelihood of churning and reduce the oily mist that is routed thru the carburetors by way of the crank case venting system. A means by which to gauge the oil level of the standard 2 liters makes a longer dip-stick desirable.
    Uke and aptbldr like this.
  10. Fr8dog61

    Fr8dog61 Been here awhile

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    Do you have a factory number off the ignition? I'll bet if you do, the dealer can order a key.

    Number 1, too much oil will make an air cooled engine (probably ANY engine) run hot.

    Number 2, The dipstick screws into a hole on the block, so the full line is the same distance from the TOP of the crankcase (and therefor the crank) no matter how long the dipstick is. So a longer dipstick would only be showing how deep the pan is. Yes I see Fxray's picture of his 2 dipsticks and am puzzled by the different distances from the top of the threads to the full lines.
  11. Fr8dog61

    Fr8dog61 Been here awhile

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    Or am I reading the dipsticks wrong?
  12. bmwrench

    bmwrench Long timer

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    That's because the oil level was lowered along with introduction of a deeper pan for 1976.
  13. fxray

    fxray Long timer

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    Yes, the maximum and minimum marks moved downward together. Relative to the top of the crankcase, the entire working range of the oil level was lower due to the longer 1976 dipstick.

    I had a faulty link to the related thread in my earlier post. I have fixed it now. That thread has a good discussion on oil level, volume of air in the crankcase, etc.

    Fr8dog61, the BMW locks don't have the numbers marked on the locks. Duane Ausherman wrote a good explanation here on how the key numbers work. Basically, given the number and a blank, it is possible to make a new key. Although the number isn't stamped on the locks, it is stamped on the flat key. There's the rub -- I don't have the flat key, and I don't have the numbers. I am hoping the PO will still come up with the keys. Otherwise, I will take the ignition lock to a locksmith and have some keys made from his inspection of the lock.

    On a happier note for this old bike, the exhaust flange nuts both spun off to reveal good threads, despite sitting for 9 years.

    [​IMG]
    dmftoy1 likes this.
  14. Uke

    Uke visualist Super Supporter

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    ^^^^^^^

    The deeper aftermarket pans typically were sold and used with an oil pickup extension, thus the stock dipstick didn't work with the original oil volume, only when the actual oil volume was increased to utilize the greater volume of the larger, deeper pan.

    For those wishing a lower height of the stock oil volume to reduce windage generated froth, the original dipstick didn't quite work to that end.

    Anton's site has a discussion of oil pans and dipsticks including a reference to the deepest dipstick registrations and the letter reference on the plastic handle for the different dip sticks.
    fxray likes this.
  15. Fr8dog61

    Fr8dog61 Been here awhile

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    AHA!

    Thanks...
  16. Fr8dog61

    Fr8dog61 Been here awhile

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    Thanks for the info. I always learn a lot from a good build thread like this.
  17. Carott

    Carott Adventurer

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    Ray,

    I recently had your same issue with a keyless bike purchase.
    My locksmith found it easier to make a new key from the seat lock instead of dismantling the ignition switch.
    Fortunately for me they were still keyed alike.
    My theory was that if it worked I win and worst case scenario the seat lock was destroyed which I could live with.
    YMMV
    Brett
    Jim K in PA likes this.
  18. bpeckm

    bpeckm Grin! Supporter

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    Based on this discussion I finally bit on getting an A dipstick. Here is a comparison of my existing (stock) dipstick and the new longer dipstick with the same oil level. I kept my oil level low on the original, now I see that I have been at the halway (perfect!) mark on the A. Thanks to all for the clarification and the nooge to do something about my deep sump!

    [​IMG]

    :-)
    Fr8dog61 likes this.
  19. cycleman2

    cycleman2 Long timer

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    On my bike the oil change with filter calls for 2750 ml. Bike has a oil cooler. If I put that much in it will always show over the full mark on the dipstick. The dipstick is original to the bike. Just for the heck of it on the last oil change I drained everything including the oil cooler, put new oil filter in and added 2838 ml of oil ( 3 bottles marked 1 US quart or .946 ml ). Ran the bike, cooler was warmed up, and checked the oil and it was at least 1/4 inch over the full mark. That is with only 88 ml of oil more than recommended. So I drained out 500 ml of oil and it now sits just below the full mark on the dipstick, with a quantity of approx. 2338 ml of oil. With oil quantities in an engine there is usually a difference in quantity between an engine that hasn't been torn down and one that has. So I can only assume that some oil is getting caught up in the engine, but am surprised that it would be that much.

    From what I've read on Anton's sight with oil pans & dipsticks ,( with respect to larger oil pans, he recommends just putting the 95 R100RT oil pan on ) and there have been several differences in dipsticks over the years so I'm thinking the marks on a dipstick are a rough guide.

    So I guess I have two choices, just put in 2500 at oil & filter changes and that will likely put it close to the full mark, and keep an eye on it, or measure out 2750 ml, put it in the crankcase, run the bike, check the oil and put a new full mark on the dipstick. Anybody gone the later route.
  20. washpark

    washpark Adventurer Supporter

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    Doesn't everyone just run between max and min? I have read many times that oil consumption is reduced when the bikes are run a bit below the full mark. The dipstick in my 1975 R90/6 has a warning in German to not over fill. The owners manual has the following warning "Never allow the oil level to drop below the lower mark on the dipstick. Do not remove the filler cap when the engine is running. To measure oil level correctly, push the dipstick back into its hole after cleaning but do not screw it in." The manual also states that "Adding too much oil is pointless and may even cause damage."
    Uke likes this.