My big delima

Discussion in 'Dakar champion (950/990)' started by Greg Minor, May 28, 2004.

  1. Greg Minor

    Greg Minor The Trespasser

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    I'm asking you guys for your wisdom! I'm going to buy some new wheels so that I can have a set with street rubber and dirt rubber. I'm going to the Big Cat in July and I'm riding the bike most of the way. Heres how it goes. Ride to Laguna Seca on July 8/9 (I live in San Diego) the 8th is just in the afternoon after work to get through LA. The 9th is the long way to Laguna 133 to 166 to 1. I'm meeting Bob (Superslotard) and a friend at Laguna, after the races we are riding back to Lake Tahoe ( Bob Lives there)on the 11 and ride a couple days around Bobs turf then on Wed the 13th we will load the bikes and head to McCall Idaho. One of the the guys going has a LC4 and does not want to ride the vibrating beast all the way. Once we get to Big Cat I need Knobbies for the good part of the ride (there are two rides one for bikes with knobbies, one for sissies ,whoops I mean bikes with regular tires) I have ordered and extra set of hubs and now the big question should I buy a set of good strong dirt wheels that won't get bent, mount some real knobbies and put my stock scorpians on my stock wheels and use those wheels for the street riding (my wife will be coming along in here truck to carry the extra set since she won't ride). Option 2 buy a set of 17/19's run Tourance tires for the street section and us my stock wheels with a new set of TKC for the ride. The problem with the stock wheels and the TKC is the same old one, in that a trail flat is a bitch to fix and I assume that with a narrower(and stronger)rear rim, a sun or excell (thats the second part of the question) It will be easier to change tires and a real knobbie will work better So what should I do One more quagmire my bike is an S so will it look really goofy with the 17/19 combo and will that combo really make the bitchen roads through the mountains that much more fun what to do ???????????? I know some of you will say just change tires when I get there but I want two sets of wheels anyway not just for this ride
    #1
  2. KTMax

    KTMax Ninth of the Nazgul

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    My Dutch 2 cents:

    A 19/17" combo with Tourances or Anakees. Without a doubt!... :nod

    IMO the improvement in grip, handling an feedback with better 'road rubber' through the twisties are bigger and used more than the improvement to be had with other knobbies.
    #2
  3. Doug Matson

    Doug Matson Long timer Supporter

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    Your bike won't look goofy, at least with you on it. You make that bike look small. I would go with the real strong dirt rims and mount good knobs on them. With the fork revalve you probably will end up riding even more aggresively, soft rims will take more of a hit. Have fun sounds like a great ride.
    #3
  4. Renazco

    Renazco Formerly AKA Boejangles

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    Personally I would buy the excel wheels for the dirt although a tad smaller, they get the job done off road and a set of Michelin deserts to boot, the TKC's just don't cut it on that bike for off road.
    17/19 combo? I don't think so! Your getting opinions from supermotard guys.
    I'd stick with the stockers on the other rims and run the Scorpions at least this way you have a decent D/S rim & tire available.
    #4
  5. kkug

    kkug Been here awhile

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    Greg this is the Kug. About your tire question. I think the MT 21,s are ok on the street if you are not going to ride fast. I would take it easy on the curves. The brakes lock up a lot easier.I put them on my bike because it was a cheep way of trying out knobbies. The rear howels like the dickens. Earplugs help with that. The front wears real good, The rear goes away fast. If I ever get my bike back togeather I am going to put my stock tires back on for the summer
    #5
  6. KTMax

    KTMax Ninth of the Nazgul

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    Yep! That's right! :nod

    But I think a 950 is more crippled as a road bike by its stock tires & rim sizes than it is crippled as a 'semi' off road bike with the best knobbies available for the stock rims.

    Besides, it's never gonna be more than a road bike with long suspension and adventurous looks anyway. Might as well have max fun there too. It's off road 'qualities' are most valued at the (imaginary) beer table... :D :1drink
    #6
  7. barbasma

    barbasma 100% CAROTONE

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    i'm very happy about PIRELLI SCORPION... on the road and for easy dirt...

    if i'll buy a second set... will be EXCEL 21/18 for hard enduro.... :nod
    #7
  8. Taki

    Taki Waiting for Godot

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    Has anyone considered using 18/18 ? If you dont mind changing tires just buy the 18 front setup and swap the rear tires, much cheaper. 18/18 is also very stable on a streetbike. Remember the early GSXR's?
    #8
  9. Renazco

    Renazco Formerly AKA Boejangles

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    Max, right when I start to think that you actually share wisdom on this forum you come up with some stupid comment!
    Try sticking some offroad tires on that bike and get some lessons and maybe your perception will change a bit, how can you comment on something you haven't experienced? Maybe we should all make our 950's into Supermotard bikes because that's all they amount too huh? :huh
    Here is something you can share with your "imaginary" drinking buddies..
    #9
  10. nomiles

    nomiles Sledge-o-matic

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    Got `em! :rofl
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  11. kirkmoon

    kirkmoon Making up for lost youth

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    If you want maximum street performance and comfort but are willing to sacrifice the ability to easily fix the tire on the side of the road, get a set of 17/19 wheels made and put on Tourance or Anakees. You would love this setup. It is, without question, a better setup than the stock wheels with Scorpions for pure road riding.

    If you want maximum dirt performance and are willing to sacrifice the ability to easily fix a flat tire on the side of the road, use the stock wheels and install some Karoos or, perhaps less optimally, some TKC80s or Deserts. I think the Karoos have gotten some unfair press around here. I have used them off road on two extended rides, both of which included a fair amount of pavement. Total miles on this set is around 1000. I have not beaten hard om them but they have been exposed to some serious off road challenges. They have not chunked. There is still 2/3 of the tread left. They hook up in the dirt as well as any knobby can with this bike. I think they bring out the best that this bike has to offer in the dirt.

    If you want maximum dirt performance and insist upon the ability to easily change out your tubes on the side of the road should you get a flat, building a set of 18/21 dirt wheels with narrower widths is probably your only option. You will have a wide array of dirt tires to choose from. You will probably be at greater risk of dinging the rims due to the large size of the bike.

    So what is the best combo of wheel sets?

    If you want to have top street performance AND top dirt performance but are willing to accept that changing out your tube on the side of the road may be difficult if not impossible, you can get the setup that I have. Build a set of 17/19 wheels and mount Tourances/Anakees on them for street riring. Mount Karoos on the stock wheels for off road riding.

    If you want to have top dirt performance and need to be able to change your tube out and are willing to accept less than optimal (but still good) street performance, the best solution would probably be to put the Scorpions on your stock rims for street and light dirt use and get a second set of 18/21 wheels with narrower rims built and mount standard dirt knobbies on them (non-tubeless tires like MT21s or D606, etc.) for hard core dirt use.

    Bottom line would seem to be dependent upon how important it is for you to be able to easily fix a flat on the side of a dirt road vs. how important it is to have optimal performance both on and off road? If you run extra heavy duty tubes and put AmerSeal inside, is that enough to make you comfortable? Can you learn how to fix a flat with the tubeless tires. It can be done. Several folks around here have done it. But it requires skill and experience. If you can, I think the first choice is the optimal solution. If not, the second one is almost as good.
    #11
  12. Greg Minor

    Greg Minor The Trespasser

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    The best solution sound like this. Buy a wheel set of 17/19 and a new set of rims 18/21 to replace the stock rims . If I did this would the stock scorpians be able to be used on the narrower new rims. Kirkmoon who did your wheels and how long did they take
    #12
  13. KTMax

    KTMax Ninth of the Nazgul

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    Don't... you'll feel screwed if you do...

    You don't have to worry about my off road experience Boejangles. Really. Don't judge something or somebody you don't no nothing about. We don't want to start off a debate on each others riding experience or skill by posting emails now do we.

    And posting a lame marketing pic from KTM doesn't really cut it. :lol3 I posted my opinion on the matter. Some people try to look or sound like Dakar cracks, others throw an entire accessory catalog on their bikes and think it looks cool, and some ride their 950s on the road. What annoys one pleases the other. No need to get offensive.

    Relax... :thumb
    #13
  14. Renazco

    Renazco Formerly AKA Boejangles

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    I call it the way I see it and it wouldn't change if you were standing right in front of me. You yourself have expressed your poor off road skills on other posts so you yourself have judged yourself. In my humble opinion I don't consider myself a great offroad rider but I'm willing to push anything to the limit even a 600# boat anchor as I've done with my 1150 Adv.
    Your observation of the 950 is solely based on what you expect from it but others have other expectations of it that are willing to make it what they consider their style of riding. I Dual Sport ride so my opinions are based on true Dual sporting riding. Greg wants the best alternative for the type of riding I see him doing on his ride reports and I gave him my opinion based on what I see him looking for. Personally I didn't buy a 950 to put 17/19 combos on it, I could think of other bikes to do that too.
    Offensive? don't mean too! I appologize if I hit a nerve :hack , just as your opinions are biased towards Supermotard riding mine are biased on true Dual Sporting.

    On another note, I've changed many of tires in my days and although a smaller diameter rim may present less of a challenge, I personally don't see the fuss about the slightly larger diameter. Once that tire lever is in, it's all gravy, really. A little muscle, patience and experience is the secret recipe in changing out tubes, it's never been a big deal to me but I can certainly see why some get concerned. :1drink
    #14
  15. Berti

    Berti Been here awhile

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    Hey Boejangles, what the fuck is the matter with you.....I didn't give you permission to post that photo of me :evil
    #15
  16. Renazco

    Renazco Formerly AKA Boejangles

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    Sorry Berti, I didn't think you would mind :lol3
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  17. SST

    SST Lost again...

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    Greg,

    I agree with you. I have seen you ride offroad :nod and I do think you would benefit from the stronger and narrower Excel or Sun rims and the wider selection of knobby tires. Plus the tires are much easier to change on the narrower rims with "regular" knobbies.

    And build the set of 19/17 and put Tourances on them. :thumb

    Two sets for two types of riding. That is exactly what I am going to do once funding allows. I am getting Excel 21/18 rims built up on my stock hubs next week. :evil My 19/17 combo will have to wait a few months (or I may have sell my Honda Supermoto race bike. :cry )

    Looking forward to rding with you again in July!

    Bob
    #17
  18. SST

    SST Lost again...

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    Hey Berti-

    I thought for a minute that was your picture but remembered your bike is SILVER. :lol3 Yuck, yuck, yuck...
    #18
  19. KTMax

    KTMax Ninth of the Nazgul

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    That would be nice. These things are 'battled out' better face to face with some beers or the throttle grip in your hand! :D

    I'm always humble about my off road experience and/or skills. But I've spend quite some time with sand in my mouth during the 4 years I rode for the Dutch National Trail championship (midfield, nothing special). Did some MX before and some Enduro after it. Loved it! :thumb

    The last 10 years or so it's sporty roadriding and holiday trips for me. Twisty roads, lean angles and cornering speed rocks my boat. Enter the Supermotards. I've tried and owned many different motorcycles. My current S is # 17 or so. And I've found out that I only feel at home on off road type bikes with a straight up riding position and wide MX bars. I guess you return to the path you started out on. Add some more speed, comfort and all round qualities to a love for KTM and there's only one bike. The 950 ADV. :evil


    Exactly! That's what makes this forum so valueable IMO. All the different angles and viewpoints on a given subject.

    About the tires. It's not only a matter of rim diameter. It's about tire choice. The stock Scorpions are quite 'knobby' for a road oriented tire. Because of this the effective contact patch is smaller and the knobbies move around a lot when loaded in a corner. You feel this effect increase the further you lean it. At the tires' edges the bike starts to feel uncomfortable while the chassis is a safe as houses and still copes easily.

    With tires like Tourances or Anakees you'll have a bigger effective footprint with very little tire movement and - probably - a stickier compound. Add some more tire width up front and lighter handling at higher speeds due to the smaller diameter and you'll have a pretty fun setup I'd say!! :nod

    My first step will be a Tourance front on the stock rim. Mixing tires is unpredictable but I'll give it a try. This winter it will be 19/17" time for me too. :evil
    #19
  20. Greg Minor

    Greg Minor The Trespasser

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    Well I made up my mind I ordered the same wheels that Kirkmoon did a 4.25x17 and a 2.15x 19 I got excell silver not polished (I had a tough time deciding on this it was an extra $224 and I decided that with the orange it would look a bit funny, save the chrome for the Harley dudes) I got stainless spokes and I'm sending my hubs to Buchanon to build. The whole ticket from Buchanon was 762.34 plus tax so 821.43. My hubs both front disk and the rear disk plus bolts and the rubbers for the cush drive came to 796.23 from the dealer with a small discount I suppose I could have done better online but I like that going to a shop with people in it so I support my local dealer Now all I need is tires Tourance or Ankees? what is the difference and which do you guys reccomend, who has the best deal on tires this is one area I'm willing to go online. All said and done I'm in about 1600 plus tires Anyone want to buy a set of 17" Lc4 wheels I have a set for sale. I decided that since I have had pretty good luck avoiding flats with my heavy duty tubes and Ride-on sealent and I only have a tiny dent in my front wheel I may as well wait on the good off road rims untill I waste the ones I have
    #20