myth of the light weight adventure bike for dirt and adv riding?

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by B1, Mar 14, 2013.

  1. B1

    B1 Carbon-based bipedal

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    i suspect the solution will be different for everyone, keepshoveling. but i'm in your position after several years of messing around with this sort of thing. if ktm/husqvarna resurrected the FE570 with suitable mods i think they'd make a killing in this category of riding.

    out of all the current big bore thumper dirt bikes, i think the beta RR480 or RS500 could be the ticket and aiming to get my grubby little mitts on it for my next project hopefully. :)

    also, since this thread never seems to die i thought i'd make a vid out of the original post...




    .
  2. mixed

    mixed Dirty

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    I agree with you about what some people will endure on the highway and what performance people are willing to give up once they hit the dirt.
    I don't even like riding a DRZ off road because I'm so used to the performance of EXCs, but a DRZ is great bike offroad comepared to any of the big adventure bikes. It's all relative.
    Anyone heres an example of what my farther in law has set up for a light weight adventure bike, it ticks all the boxes for me except for maintaince intervals. (shown in road warrior mode)

    Attached Files:

    keepshoveling likes this.
  3. B1

    B1 Carbon-based bipedal

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    very interesting point, mixed. the little AJP bikes are creating a lot of interest as it's an old XR just engine slapped into a modern bike. it would be awesome to see them do something similar with the DRZ too. plenty of us aren't worried about massive horsepower, but would just like a reasonably light modern style bike with a bulletproof engine...
  4. octopusenvy

    octopusenvy gravel grommit

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    just saw this from ages ago. i'll send u a PM and maybe there's a chance for us to catch up around Banff in July :beer
  5. octopusenvy

    octopusenvy gravel grommit

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    Hey B1, i think we think similarly. Did u see my list b4? Doesn't have the Beta in it due to no experience with it...but sounds like it would certainly slot into my top 10. I made a different list if money was a limiting factor (which it is for me), but the ultimate list of moving targets was this:

    My biggest factor would be LIGHTWEIGHT, CAPABILITY, LONGEVITY, COMFORT, all of which are important and none being more important then the other. A big KTM1190 may be able to go anywhere if u r a pro, but for average joe/jill it's a whale (a pretty and powerful one tho). Every bike needs farkling, so assume that any or every conceivable addition is available and added if preferred.

    #1 Husaberg FE570 (aftermarket seat, extra fuel, exhaust, cush hub)
    #2 BMW g650x challenge (aftermarket suspension, seat, extra fuel xtank, exhaust)
    #3 KTM 690E/Husaberg 701 (aftermarket seat, extra fuel, exhaust)
    #4 KTM 501/701 (aftermarket seat, extra fuel, exhaust, cush hub)
    #5 CCM450 (aftermarket seat, exhaust)
    #6 AJP PR7 (aftermarket seat, exhaust)
    #7 DRZ400e (aftermarket suspension, aftermarket seat, fuel, exhaust)
    #8 Yamaha wr450f (aftermarket suspension, seat, fuel, rekluse clutch, exhaust)
    #9 Honda Adventure 250 (aftermarket suspension, seat)
    #10 Honda Africa Twin (aftermarket suspension, aftermarket seat, aftermarket exhaust)

    What did I miss??
  6. jspringator

    jspringator Long timer

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    Just ordered the Lectron Carb for the XT. This should be the final piece, except for front stainless steel brake lines.
  7. Kommando

    Kommando Long timer

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    There are some things though that almost EVERYBODY can agree on as being desirable in a lightweight adv bike...

    -Wide-ratio 6spd.
    -200 miles or more of fuel range.
    -40MPG or better...preferably better.
    -Ability to mount a sturdy skid.
    -Sturdy subframe.
    -Long maintenance intervals.
    -Longevity.
    -Enough pavement ability to slab all day if necessary.
    -Enough dirt ability for a mortal to handle it in moderate singletrack.
    - Adjustable/fixable suspension.
    -A sturdy frame and mounts to connect to that suspension.
    -As light as a KLR650 or lighter. Preferably as light as a DR650 or lighter.
    -Maintenance friendly.
    -Adjustable ergos, whether factory or aftermarket.
    -Enough stator output to power at least heated grips.
    -OPTIONAL ABS.
    -No exploding trannies, fragile top ends, fragile battery mounts, fragile frames/mounts/welds, sky-high seats, ergos that only a midget could love, bodywork that has to be removed for just a damn oil change, gimmicky air suspension, 12hr valve adjustments, exposed filter/sump, or 1-yr production runs.

    Some people want EFI. Some want carb. Some want higher - spec suspension than others. Some want a kicker. Mfrs should offer more optional/aftermarket equipment, IMO. Suzuki offers an aftermarket skid and a tailrack for their DR650, and a kicker kit for the DRZ, for example. BMW offers optional heated grips and ABS. Moto mfrs need to expand on this, especially in such a varied category as DS/adv offerings...IMO.
  8. Black Hills

    Black Hills Long timer

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    another factor is the size of the rider. my 1190 is pretty big, but at 6'2" and 230lbs. it is easier for me to handle it that it is for a 5'6" 160 lb. guy. On the flip side a 250cc bike doesn't haul my fat ass around very well..
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  9. keepshoveling

    keepshoveling DNF

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    fwiw, this is a good list of very nice adventure bikes. But... your biggest factor is four different, conflicting factors. :lol3 What about expense and parts availability (both OEM and aftermarket)? 3, 4, 5, and 10 (if you're talking about the new one, also note it's not really light) are expensive bikes and 6 isn't out yet but will probably be expensive. 1 and 2 are both discontinued which leads to reduced availability of parts, but they're also just tremendous value compared to 3 or 4. How are you prioritizing each of your factors?

    As I type this out, I think you actually have to start with the first question: how much money do I have to spend? and go from there. It doesn't matter if you really want a new, fully farkled 701 if you don't have the cash. That's why I'd split your list into three in response to that question, so you'd have something like:

    Under $6k, including farkles
    1. FE570
    2. G650X
    3. DRZ
    4. WR450F
    other bikes to consider: other japanese bikes like the wr250, CRF250L, KLR (pushing lightweight a bit but if you want reliable and cheap...), XR650, DR650

    $6k+
    1. 690/701
    2. 500
    3. CCM450
    4. WR450F
    other bikes to consider: betas, 350 and 450 KTM/huskys, 950se if you're doing a lot of pavement although I recognize this isn't exactly in fitting with the "lightweight" part of the initial question.

    The Only Real Choice
    1. the noble ADV scoot

    Imagine what they could do with knobbies!

    Cheap to replace anything, never worry about it getting stolen, and if something goes wrong you can just carry it out.
    Not powerful enough? Buy two and tie them together like an adv-chariot.
    2. the postie - not quite as good as a scooter, but it's awfully close. all the same advantages of 1, but with a little less power and worse ergos.


    Anyway, I'd still end up choosing a bike based on what you're prioritizing and I think that will be different for everyone, but just as a practical matter I think money is a pretty good place to start as it's the hard stop most of us will end up running into.

    I like this list a lot and agree that this is all very desirable stuff, but often folks are willing to give up things like longevity, long maintenance intervals and no 1-year production run in exchange for other items. It really would be great if the manufacturers would offer this but unfortunately I think they already are, it's just in the high margin bikes like the 1200gs that you see it.
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  10. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Long timer

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    There will be a few more choices around 2017.

    FIRST look at prototype Yamaha MT-07 Adventure bike – ALL OF THE PICS right here

    [​IMG]

    BMW GS 310 R adventure bike confirmed by UK boss here

    And the long rumored KTM 390 Adventure envisioned here

    [​IMG]
  11. alvincullumyork

    alvincullumyork Ol Two Flags Supporter

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    I won't lie the Yamerhammer looks interesting but I doubt it will be under 400 lbs and IF it only has 70 ish horsepower... meh

    The other 'adventure' bikes all have cast wheels. Next.
  12. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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    Most of the other "adventure" bikes actually suck at the adventure part, the FZ-07 runs sub 400lbs dry @379 advertised, spoke wheels are desirable if you are actually going off road, which is why the big GSs and the 1190s, Multistrata Enduro and whatnot all come with spokes......they soak up hits off road better than cast wheels that just break.

    That Yamaha has the potential to be in the ballpark with a KTM 690 weight wise, because a 690 starts 100 pounds lighter, but by the time you are done hanging all the stuff on it you are getting into the 350-400 range. That Yamaha looks like I may be a pretty sweet ticket, I see at least 5" of exposed slider, considering that 33% "should" be in the tubes above that places the front travel at 7 or 8 inches, I would expect the rear to be the same (hell my Super Duke has 6" rear) wheels are "proper" sizes, that motor makes 75hp....which is adequate for what I would want, cycleworld has it at 65hp@45ft/lbs with a tractorlike torque curve.

    Assuming they don't go retarded with the price could be a solid base, the FZ07 is only 7 grand in the US, so I would think somewhere in the 8-9 range OTD.
  13. AdventuresinRealLife

    AdventuresinRealLife ADV Motovlogger

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    Not a myth at all, I've had good results with my '07 KLX250s. Checks all the boxes, except the fuel range (will only do about 150 with the Clarke Tank). Though it is farkled to all hell in order to make it useful for long range ADV.

    I go over it in this video:

  14. High Country Herb

    High Country Herb Adventure Connoiseur

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    That Yamaha 07 looks like a great addition to their line up. It looks like a Mini Tenere.

    I felt the FZ-07 was very easy to ride, and a great choice for newish riders. Easy to ride may translate into a great adv bike.
  15. Kommando

    Kommando Long timer

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    True. I actually slightly prefer my DR650s offroad to the DR-Z400S, and MUCH prefer them on pavement. I like the wider feel, don't mind a 367lb moto, and like to ride torque. Suspension can be made identical to the DRZ, or even better, but just upgraded springs and damping works fine for my level of riding offroad. I don't need top shelf forks or shock. I'm exploring and playing. Not racing. 1000 miles/day is certainly possible on a DR-Z400, but I'd rather do it at lazy revs on a DR650 that more easily stays in its lane at 80MPH and won't spit coolant if I get stuck in traffic.
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  16. dirt hokie

    dirt hokie Long timer

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    I think the three controlling issues for a real do-all bike
    Weight
    reliability
    power
    1. The 650 singles may not have the power the street biased adventure riders look for, but are light compared to a adventure bike and are reliable as can be.
    2. You can get the power out of a thumper, but you will drastically cut down on reliability which the off road biased guys buy the old school thumpers for.
    3. Power cost weight and effects reliability. The reliable bikes with street bike power come with street bike weight.
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  17. greasyfatman

    greasyfatman Long timer

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    Eat a cheese burger once in a while.6'2 130 is near death.
  18. Black Hills

    Black Hills Long timer

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    haha...that is supposed to be 230... I eat a lot of cheeseburgers....
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  19. BGil

    BGil Been here awhile

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    I really hope that SWM Superdual will be as good as it looks on the paper.

    An adventure bike made with the engine of the Huskvarna TE630. That could be an answer for some of us.

    [​IMG]
  20. High Country Herb

    High Country Herb Adventure Connoiseur

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