Narrowing the field...

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by TWBmusic, Sep 23, 2019.

  1. TWBmusic

    TWBmusic Adventurer

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    I'm down to 3 serious contenders, and those are the Piaggio Liberty 150s, the Genuine Hooligan and the Sym Fiddle III. I STILL have not been able to see a Hooligan in person, as the local dealerships don't stock it as they say it is a slow seller. The Piaggio is a nice scoot but I have read a few horror stories about Piaggio customer service whereas the Genuine customer service seems to be top notch. I don't know about Sym.... I just looked at the Sym today and it seems to fit both my wife and myself nicely. The salesperson seemed to press the ceramic coating on the cylinders as being a good reason for purchasing... The scoot does seem to be a good value for the money. Anybody own any of these? I'd be interested in your ownership comments...
    #1
  2. JPopee

    JPopee Scooter Crash Test Dummy

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    I honestly can't speak to any of these options. However, the SYM Fiddle III is the exact same engine and specs as they are using in their Lance line of scooters. https://www.lancepowersports.com/models/index.html I currently have a 2016 Cali Classic 200I (169cc) scooter and it has about 1000 miles on it so far and it is a fairly nice scooter but not quite the quality of my Kymco Like 150i. The scooters run about the same speed 60ish by GPS with me on them (230 lbs). My wife and I rode the Cali Classic together the other day to see how it would perform and it ran 45-50 ish comfortably as I'm about to give it to my in-laws. Parts availability and dealer support in your area are very important factors to consider.
    #2
  3. cdwise

    cdwise Long timer Supporter

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    I hear horror stories about pretty much every brand. I’ve dealt with many Piaggio -Vespa dealerships and only 1 was what I consider to be bad. They are a multi brand dealership and from what I could tell service problems were the same regardless of which brand they carried. Okay, there is also one other boutique dealership that outsources their service department I wouldn’t recommend mostly because the place they outsource to prioritizes their own customers so it takes a lot longer to get the work done than it should. OTOH, I’ve used the local Genuine, Lance dealer for routine work like belt and roller, tire changes on both my Vespa and Genuine scoots as well as independent shops. It is mostly warranty work that needs a dealer or the rare flash updating of the ecu. Liberty uses the same engine as the equivalent years Sprint, Primavera or LX so if you are at all mechanically inclined the Scooterwest videos will show you how to do pretty much everything. Parts are quickly and easily available from Scooterwest, AF1 or ScooterPartsCo as well as SIP in Germany who can have them to you in a few days.
    #3
  4. Kmart

    Kmart Been here awhile

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    Hands down my first choice would be the Liberty. Robot has a great review here:
    #4
  5. cdwise

    cdwise Long timer Supporter

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    I have to admit I have considered buying a Liberty for the 2020 cannonball instead of taking one of our lovely GTSes.
    #5
  6. JerryH

    JerryH To Each Their Own Supporter

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    First time I've seen Robot with anything but a Vespa. That is one expensive scooter for being a 150cc You cab by buy a Yamaha XMax for that. 300cc. Or if you want/need a 150, out of your list, I would consider the Sym Fiddle. It is VERY low priced, and if it has the same engine and drivetrain in it as my Lance Cali Classic 125, it is unbeatable for the price. I bought my black 2016 Cali Classic with 800 miles on it in pretty bad cosmetic condition (though no sign if it being dropped, just seriously scratched up and dirty, which shows up worse on black) for $700. Rode it home, took it apart, and found absolutely nothing wrong. It not has over 6,000 completely trouble free miles, many at full throttle, it keeps up with city traffic just fine, and parts, if you ever need any, are super cheap online. I have a 2006 Vespa GT200 in like new condition, but wanted something cheap for commuting.
    #6
  7. Kmart

    Kmart Been here awhile

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    What? The Liberty is $3k and the Xmax is closer to $6k. The Liberty is priced very competitively and comes standard with front wheel ABS.
    #7
  8. JerryH

    JerryH To Each Their Own Supporter

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    You are correct. I must have been thinking of something else (I am currently on muscle relaxers) I would definitely go for the Liberty then. If I were looking for a 150cc scooter that is what I would get. I am a firm believer in Piaggio ever since getting my fist Vespa. I still like the SYM/Lance line of scooters. I use to have a SYM HD200, and had no problems at all. I now have a Lance, and still no problems. But the Liberty is a big step up in status and quality. Nobody would ever mistake it for being Chinese. The Hooligan is the one I would avoid. The Hooligan uses the same bottom end as the Buddy 125 (a wonderful scooter) but they put a 170cc top end on it. They put this huge oil cooler right behind the front wheel in a very vulnerable spot to try and keep it cool, but there are still persistent rumors that it has overheating problems. It is still air cooled. First there was the Buddy 125, then the Buddy 150, which is also a wonderful scooter, but I think they pushed it too far with the 170. They should have come up with a whole new engine designed for that displacement.
    #8
  9. fried okra

    fried okra Been here awhile

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    Love my Buddy 125 :)

    And my old Aprilia Scarabeo 150's.

    And my old Triumph cycles too.

    fried okra
    #9
  10. BigBaloo

    BigBaloo Been here awhile

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    Liberty would be my pick of the three, primarily because of the larger diameter wheels. And the Italian styled coolness. Bellissima!
    #10
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  11. Dan V.

    Dan V. Been here awhile

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    How long do you plan on keeping the new scoot? Having had a difficult time lately getting parts for my scoots (all between 13 and 20 years old) I have re-thought any new purchases as to brand. I think you know which manufacturer will have good parts availability down the road. Worth paying a bit more upfront, methinks.
    #11
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  12. TWBmusic

    TWBmusic Adventurer

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    My wife and I watched that video last night... We're driving down there tomorrow to look at the Hooligan and Liberty to compare side by side...
    #12
  13. TWBmusic

    TWBmusic Adventurer

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    I'm quite certain we will have it for the long haul, which is why I am taking my time in the decision making process.
    #13
  14. TWBmusic

    TWBmusic Adventurer

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    What about a Yamaha SMax? Originally I was leaning toward a Yamaha Zuma 125, but decided that it probably didn't have enough power for 2up riding without modifications. One good thing about the SMax would be that it is liquid cooled as opposed to air-cooled on the other models that I am interested in. What about this business of the ceramic coated cylinders? Is that a big deal? Sym has it as does the Lance models with the same engine as the Fiddle... I know that the Zuma 125 has ceramic coated cylinders as well.....
    #14
  15. velobuff

    velobuff Adventurer

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    The fit and finish of Piaggio/Vespa/Aprilia scooters is head and shoulders above most other scoots. We have a Buddy 170i and a Aprilia SportCity 250 and you can tell the difference in build quality, materials, etc between the 2. You can walk a block in Italy or France without tripping over a Piaggio/Vespa/Aprilia. Genuine isn’t a brand outside the US IME.

    Test drive all of them but get the Piaggio.
    #15
  16. The Virginian

    The Virginian Long timer

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    For longevity, parts, quality of build, my personal vote with be the Liberty or Sprint. For performance, the Smax cannot be beat in it's class if that's you cup of tea. Good luck on your choice!
    #16
  17. JerryH

    JerryH To Each Their Own Supporter

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    The SMax is a nice scooter, but on the expensive side, with a $3,799 MSRP, and a MANDATORY $375 "destination charge" that the dealer has no choice but to charge you or eat it. It seems like Japanese manufacturers are trying to put their dealers out of business. And I doubt it is even made in Japan. At least it comes in something besides matte black for 2020. I have had 2 matte black scooters, and sold them both just because I couldn't deal with the color, or rather, lack of color. I weigh 240, and would never consider carrying a passenger on anything short of a Burgman 650. While Japanese BRAND bikes are usually high quality (very few are actually made in Japan anymore) they are simply to expensive for me new. I have gotten away from a lifetime of riding Japanese bikes. I have a Lance Cali Classic 125, a 2 stroke Genuine Stella 150, a Vespa GT200, a Royal Enfield Bullet, and a H-D Sportster 1200. My only 2 Japanese bikes are a Kawasaki Vulcan 750 (made in the U.S.) and a Honda Rebel 250 (made in Japan) With all that, I really don't see myself buying another bike in my life. I would be willing to trade some of that for something off road capable. Something else to consider with Japanese brand bikes is they are only intended to last 10 years. Many dealers will refuse to work on a bike more than 10 years old, some won't even sell parts for them. I don't know what the deal is with other manufacturers/dealers.
    #17
  18. cdwise

    cdwise Long timer Supporter

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    Genuine scooters are made by PGO with slight modifications required by DOT and CARB for the US market. Model equivalents outside the US are:

    Genuine Buddy is a PGO Ligero,
    Genuine Hooligan is PGO Hot,
    Genuine Blur is PGO G-Max,
    Genuine Rough House is PGO Big Max
    Genuine Rattler I'd PGO PMX Naked
    Genuine Buddy Kick is PGO BuBu

    Piaggio/Vespa has a long history of parts availability and almost all the engine and mechanical parts in the Liberty are the same as the equipment 50 or 150 Vespa model of the sake year. Piaggio Liberty is used by the Italian postal service. Aka it is the Honda P stir of Europe.

    Having said that we have had zero issues getting parts for our 2006 Genuine Buddy 125 but it it's the most popular model and I'm not sure how many parts they have in common.
    #18
  19. tenders

    tenders Curator of Entropy

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    True and untrue. Genuine is a US-based importer of foreign scooters that are distributed worldwide. The Genuine Buddy line is made by PGO in Taiwan and is distributed in many other markets as the BuBu or Liggero. The Genuine Stella line was made by LML in India (now out of business) using an authorized but not current Vespa baseline model. I think PGO makes the Genuine Hooligan and Roughhouse lines too. Both PGO and LML were once Piaggio/Vespa contract manufacturers and make/made very good scooters!
    #19
  20. BigBaloo

    BigBaloo Been here awhile

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    PGO = PiaGgiO
    They started out licence building Piaggios, hence the name.
    #20