Neduro's Tire Changing Class

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by neduro, Aug 24, 2004.

  1. techieguy

    techieguy Lost in the woods

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    Thank you, thank you, thank you.

    I just changed my stock MT21 for a Maxxis 6006. I haven't changed a motorcycle tire in 30 years. Not that I want to change tires all the time, just that I wanted to be sure I could at my age!

    The biggest bitch was removing the second bead of the old tire. It just took some time. When I tried to remove one tire iron to move it to a new spot, the tire wanted to roll back on the rim.

    I ended up using just plain water as a lube. It seemed to make the process go a lot easier.

    One question I have. The SXC did not come with a nut to hold the valve stem in place on the rim so it was a pain to get the air chuck on the valve without it wanting to praire dog and go back in the rim. I found an old nut off my IT175 and put it on to help in inflating the tube.

    Should I leave the nut on or is there a reson there is no nut on the valve stem?
    #61
  2. neduro

    neduro Long timer Supporter

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    Leave the one lever that goes all the way through in place with lots of pressure on it, and use a second lever to keep pulling off little bites until you've got about 1/3rd of the rim bare. Then, you should be able to pull the rim one way and the tire the other and be finished.

    Generally, it doesn't matter. But if you spin the rim within the tire (a frequent occurance in some cases), you can rip the valve stem out with the nut in place, where it might just go into the rim without it.

    If you run more than 15 or 20 psi in your tires, it's probably a non issue.
    #62
  3. murgatroid42

    murgatroid42 Great Adventurer

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    Thanks, neduro, for these instructions. Here's a well deserved bump for this this thread. I only had 2 problems - getting the old tire off, and the new one on. It took only 2.5 hrs. for a new rear D606 tire. :rolleyes

    I had a problem getting one side of the tire over the rimlock, and then getting the beads around the edges of the rimlock. I liked the pics showing the tube valve stem alignment (and the hint to put some air into the tube). Should I have removed the rimlock from the wheel, and put it on top of the tube inside the tire, then as I put the tire on, put the rimlock through the hole? Or should I have left the rimlock on the rim, and muscled the beads around the rimlock? (which is what I did. :bluduh)

    So far, the tire is holding air and looks like it seated OK. :thumb
    #63
  4. neduro

    neduro Long timer Supporter

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    If you start the first bit of the new tire around the rimlock, (rimlock installed, but pushed in so that there's plenty of clearance between rim and lock, then slide the tire into that gap first, before working it down anywhere else around the rim)... then you shouldn't ever fight around the rimlock.

    Only time it's appropriate to leave the rimlocks out is if you're using two- then, leave the rimlocks and tube out, put the first side of the tire on, put in the rimlocks and the tube, and then put on the second side. Except it only sounds that easy.

    Hope that helps.
    #64
  5. murgatroid42

    murgatroid42 Great Adventurer

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    My rimlock is opposite (180 out) from the valve stem. My mistake was putting the first side of the tire on the rim starting at the valve stem, so the stem would not move. I should have put the first side of the tire starting on/under the rimlock, THEN put the SECOND side of the tire on the rim starting at the valve stem.

    It's still holding air. :clap
    #65
  6. flaterik

    flaterik wannabe adventurer

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    <i> Step 5: Pull the first side of the tire down onto the rim, taking care as always to keep the bead in the dish of the rim.</i>

    I totally misunderstood this line, and it gave me no end of trouble this weekend putting a GP110 rear on my KLR.

    I kept trying to keep the bead seated all the way around as I levered on. Which, clearly, makes it impossible to lever the second side all the way on. I struggled for the last 1/4 of the second side for two afternoons, breaking the tip off of one tire lever in the process.

    Once I FINALLY realized I needed to keep the bead UNseated until it was all over the rim, it was dead simple to finish.

    Bah. I'll treat it as a learning experience. I hope the front is as easy as post-revelation rear when I get to it...
    #66
  7. neduro

    neduro Long timer Supporter

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    Anything that could be done to make it clearer?
    #67
  8. flaterik

    flaterik wannabe adventurer

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    For someone being as dense as I was, the best thing would've been an explicit "this means keep the bead unseated, and down in the middle of the wheel" at that point. I didn't realize until I re-read it after finishing that I realized "dish" didn't mean "the place where the bead goes".

    (why did I think it would go on while it was seated? that doesn't make any sense.)
    #68
  9. ncfitton

    ncfitton Summit Adventurer

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    Thanks Ned :thumb
    I just finished my first tire change on my LC4. Your directions were perfect for me. I changed the front in under 1/2 an hour, but the rear took me 3 days :lol3

    I couldn't break the bead on the rear for the life of me. So I took the 4th off and drank beers then today took the wheel to the local shop and they broke the bead for me then I continued tonight and everything went close to perfect. Definately the key for me was standing on the tire to squeeze it into the centre of the rim to take the tension off the tire where the tire irons went in.

    I do have a problem however. I suspect my rear tire is not quite the right size. I have deflated and inflated twice and I can't get the bead to seat nicely all the way around the tire. It's perfect except for opposite the valve stem where the bead is too far inside the rim by maybe 5mm-8mm - a noticable amount. I mounted the wheel and when I spin it, it doesnt look true to me. I'll take it for a short SLOW test ride in the morning. Any ideas? It's an IRC Road Winner 150/70 - 18, I bought it off a guy on ktmtalk.

    Cheers,
    Nick.
    #69
  10. elgreen

    elgreen Crotchety Contrarian

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    Yeppers, bead not seated. Probably started out with too much bead on one side and not enough on the other. Hate it when that happens. Suggestions:

    1. Deflate the tire again, and BREAK THE BEAD ALL AROUND ON BOTH SIDES. I can use a big tire spoon to do that on mine, but bigger stiffer tires may require an actual bead breaker tool. If so, buy one.

    2. Once the bead is broken all around, try to re-center the tire on the rim.

    3. Inflate the tire *slowly*, while bumping it with a rubber mallet all around to help center itself. Most tires have a little ridge on the bead. Try to whack the tire in such a way as to move the tire towards where that ridge is close to the rim, and away from where that ridge is far from the rim.

    4. Feel free to overpressure the tire slightly (figure that any tire has at least a 25% safety factor, so if, e.g., it says 35psi max, feel free to pressure it up to 45psi) and sometimes bouncing on the *opposite* side of the low side will help.

    5. Deflate and repeat rubber mallet treatment if this didn't work the first time through.

    6. No guarantees if your tire explodes in your face because you believe me. (Note: I've never had a tire explode in *my* face, but that may just be the gods looking out for me).
    #70
  11. AntWare

    AntWare Lost In Translation

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    Nick, I know it's a little too late now but try rubbing a light coating of 50/50 water/washing up liquid (or whatever you're using for tyre lube) around the bead of the tyre before you inflate it.

    If the tyre you're working with now doesn't seat after a short ride, deflate, push the bead away from the tyre at the unseated spot using your irons and drop some tyre lube down in there, then inflate 'til it seats. (I've seen unlubed KTM 950 rear's take over 70psi to get seated, lubing should help you keep the pressures down)

    Ned's a bit of a purist, so he'll be along in a minute to tell you not to use any lube and only use the tools you carry in your fannypack...oh yeah...and wait 'til the heat of the day and get outside in the sun and do it :lol3
    #71
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  12. neduro

    neduro Long timer Supporter

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    I've changed 950 rears 2x now, and had to use Windex each time to get the bead over that ridge... :dunno

    But Ant's right about one thing- make the change in the hot Nevada Sun...

    #72
  13. matey peeps

    matey peeps Bead Buddy

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    [​IMG]
    [guiness commercial] Insert the tube in the tire before mounting the tire on the wheel? BRILLIANT! [/guiness commercial]

    I wrangled with my new Karoo rear for an hour before I gave up, cursing. What I'd call 'a whole lot of fucking and not a lot of friction' (me going fuck! fuck! fuck! FUUUUUUUCK!). Realizing there's a better way and I'd better stop before I break something, I said 'hey, Neduro posted something about a tire changing class a whle back.' Lo and behold, putting half the tire on and then trying to fish the tube thru wasn't the best way. 10 min later I had that bastard on. And it's still holding air this morning so I didn't pinch the tube. Thanks Ned!
    #73
  14. ncfitton

    ncfitton Summit Adventurer

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    thanks for the tips ant and ned.

    unfortunately i tried soap and i tried to deflate/inflate 3 times - all very tedious with my bicycle foot pump :lol3

    in the end i took the wheel back to the local shop that broke the old bead and they inflated it to 120 psi for me and the new tire bead popped right into place. i was never gonna get it with my foot pump.

    n.
    #74
  15. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

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    hey nick,

    say, won't a gas station air hose do that as well?

    hi to the fam!
    :wave
    #75
  16. AntWare

    AntWare Lost In Translation

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    :huh


    :lol3

    BTDT...I go tired of carrying my wheels round to the gas station once a month so I invested in a compressor. :deal

    [​IMG]
    #76
  17. ncfitton

    ncfitton Summit Adventurer

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    i bought a compressor yesterday :deal

    i could have gone to the gas station - if i was certain that only the pressure was the problem. the rim has a ding in it and the tires came from a dodgy source, so i wanted a pro to take a look before the whole thing blew up in my face.
    #77
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  18. blues

    blues Long timer Supporter

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    Hey Ned, nice write up.

    This morning I r&r'd the rear MT 21 on my 625, first time in at least 25 years. Like techie, I just needed to see if I could do it and your article gave me the incentive so I found my old tire irons and gave it a go. Your write up and pictures are quite clear and the whole process went reasonably well. Here are a couple observations from this mornings fun. Also like Techie it was the back side that was difficult possibly because a tire that is beefy enough to take the weight and power of a 625 is pretty stiff.

    1.0 Tire irons. I used one like the ones you have and the other is about as long as my hand. I hold with the short one and pry with the long one. For the back side I think two long ones ( like yours ) would be much easier.

    2.0 Lube. I wimped out and lubed it when the going got tough. This made it alot easier.

    3.0 When doing the last 1/4 on the back side I found that wiggling the iron ( w/ the lube ) helped pop the lip over the rim.

    Will I do another one? Sure. Is it easy? No.
    #78
  19. I also gave this tire changing a try after seeing this thread and it went pretty well. It took me a couple hours in total but most of that time was spent wrestling to break the bead on the rear. I took the stock Trail Wings off and put a MT21 on the front and a Kenda 270 on the rear. Big Props to Neduro for convincing so many of us to put the checkbook away and get the tools out...we all owe you some beers at the very least. Thanks for the great thread!!
    #79
  20. Max Power

    Max Power Secret Agent

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    Hey Ned, I was thinkin of you today. :lol3

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    #80