New 'oldness', Royal Enfield time machine.

Discussion in 'Old's Cool' started by Scooterdoodler, Mar 10, 2017.

  1. ddavidv

    ddavidv The reason we can't have nice things

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    I had chicken for lunch today.
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  2. ddavidv

    ddavidv The reason we can't have nice things

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    Pro Tip: when ordering from Hitchcocks make sure the package is big enough to have to ship DHL and not postal service. :dirtdog
  3. thadf

    thadf Adventurer

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    Asking for intercession from Sts. Peter and Paul today.
    Hope it starts going better for you!
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  4. Mista Vern

    Mista Vern Knows All - Tells Some.

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    I went straight to St. Jude.
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  5. ddavidv

    ddavidv The reason we can't have nice things

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    DHL gets shipments here in about 4 days. Royal Mail/USPS is going to be 2 weeks. :becca
  6. Center-stand

    Center-stand Long timer

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    ..

    The suspense is killing me.

    ..
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  7. ddavidv

    ddavidv The reason we can't have nice things

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    Parts arrived Thursday. Installed today.
    No love.
    Something is seriously f*cked up with this thing. Video to come.
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  8. ddavidv

    ddavidv The reason we can't have nice things

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    And remember fellas, she could be yours! :rofl Cheaper now than if I ever fix the wretched thing.
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  9. Center-stand

    Center-stand Long timer

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    ..

    Just going to think out loud for a minute or two.

    The issues are,

    Not enough travel to completely release the clutch, and Wobbly parts.

    Suggestions,

    Devise a way to attach a rod or straight edge to the studs in the case and set the end of strait edge/rod close to the splined transmission shaft. Turn the shaft to determine if it is bent.

    If shaft is bent, start looking for a transmission that will fit and work.

    If shaft is not bent it would suggest you have an assortment of mismatched parts, or an incorrectly assembled transmission. Unless I am missing something, it seems obvious that a spacer on the shaft moves the clutch assembly farther away from the actuating mechanism and makes complete release impossible.

    Could the shaft be installed in the transmission case with a spacer that sets it back too far in the housing to properly engage the clutch assembly while still holding the clutch assembly clear of the bolt heads? Did I interpret the video correctly that with the spacer removed the clutch seemed to release? With a fixed length shaft, and a fixed length clutch actuating rod, the spline end of the shaft must be in a plane that allows clutch assembly clearance.

    These comments are based on observation of information in this thread. I have no specific knowledge of the various RE components or how they fit together.

    ..
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  10. Eatmore Mudd

    Eatmore Mudd Mischief on wheels.

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    Ddavidv, ,let me know if the main shaft is warped. Also not a bad to check the clutch hub and basket for trueness.
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  11. Center-stand

    Center-stand Long timer

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    After writing the post above, I visited the RE forum to discover we have offered no real new suggestions here.

    I do think that the wobble seen with the basket in place, even though it is a small amount, is an exaggeration of what you would see / measure on the shaft if the shaft is indeed bent. There is a part of me that thinks the amount of drag that it appears to show as a result of the wobble is not enough to keep the transmission from going into gear from neutral, but, video can be deceiving.

    The transmission is constant mesh. I wonder if everything might have worked for awhile but a maladjusted clutch caused wear on the parts that accommodate constant mesh resulting in eventual failure. Again, I am speculating in very general terms, because I have no specific training or expertise on transmissions to speak in specific terms.

    At any time during this debacle do you recall kicking the motor over with the clutch lever pulled and the transmission in gear. It might be interesting to know if there is sufficient drag to inhibit being kicked over, or if the clutch released enough to turn without tugging through the transmission.

    I think I recall reading at some point you had measured only 1/16 inch of movement in the actuating rod when disengaging the clutch.That seems insufficient to release the clutch under the best of circumstances, as that 1/16 of an inch would be divided by the number of spaces between the clutch discs.

    If it is true that the clutch rod only moves 1/16 of an inch then the adjustment mechanism needs to be inspected to assure that all parts are the correct ones, and are installed in the proper configuration.

    While I may not be offering solutions, maybe something I say will cause you to to explore in a different direction where you find the solution.

    ..
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  12. thadf

    thadf Adventurer

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    Dang it.... still rooting for you though!!
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  13. Mista Vern

    Mista Vern Knows All - Tells Some.

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    Shoot, I missed the recent updates. All kinds of good ideas, folks! :thumb
  14. ddavidv

    ddavidv The reason we can't have nice things

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    I'm not an Albion transmission mechanic but play one on YouTube. Am I onto something or is this amount of play normal?
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  15. Webman

    Webman Been here awhile

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    Doesn’t look good to me, but I DEFINITELY don’t play an Albion transmission mechanic on YouTube. :D
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  16. Mista Vern

    Mista Vern Knows All - Tells Some.

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    What Webman said. I haven't even seen so much play on old Harley transmissions. I hope someone with actual experience chimes in!
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  17. msahern5

    msahern5 Jumping at Shadows

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    I may be way off base but how about putting a dial indicator on the transmission shaft and checking for runout?
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  18. Center-stand

    Center-stand Long timer

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    ..
    Well I'm certainly not a transmission mechanic either, but I can say with confidence what I think. That shaft should not have that much movement. That doesn't necessarily mean it is the problem you've been chasing, but let's hope it is.

    That shaft is supported on both ends by bearings. So, ..... if it were supported at both ends, the movement would be somewhat less than we are seeing in the video. You need to get to both bearings to check their condition. I would be surprised if both don't need to be replaced.

    The inner workings of the transmission should have fairly tight tolerances. Even with both ends supported it would appear there is enough play to keep the sliding gears from moving and meshing as intended.

    Once the shaft is free of the housing you can check it for straightness.

    While it's easy to be on the sidelines offering opinions and suggestions, I'm not the one who has to check the parts, determine what is wrong, repair, replace, and reassemble it. I readily admit I would not have taken it to the point you have with my limited knowledge. Kudos to you for jumping in there.

    I think the key is going to be knowing what parts are worn, broken, bent, or otherwise damaged too bad to be put back in. Ideally it will be no more than seals and bearings. Personally I would have to chase down a local mechanic with some transmission knowledge to check it out before reassembly. I wouldn't want to do it more than once.

    ..
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  19. ddavidv

    ddavidv The reason we can't have nice things

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    That shaft slides inside another one that the chain final drive sprocket attaches to. So the other end is supported by both the outer shaft and the bearing. I could detect no play at that end with it together. I couldn't reliably get a runout reading on it either because of how short the protruding shaft was in the primary case plus there is a lack of flat surfaces. But...the wobble of the clutch is far more likely to be from this end in question. For the opposite end to be 'bad' there should be other indicators.
    I seriously doubt the shaft is bad but plan on checking it. If it would be bent it should wobble and contact the shaft it slides inside of. I don't see any wear spots on it.
    Getting to this depth on the Albion is actually pretty easy. It does require taking apart a bunch of linkage-y bits for the shift and neutral finder but if you keep the parts in order and orientation it's not bad. Just grease, no oil so nothing to drain. If I'd have to go deeper and remove gears that would get messy. The Albion is a really compact transmission and can be very fiddly to get apart/together just because of the case clearance. There is a real British bike mechanic Michael Waller who did a YouTube series on building a trials bike replica. He does a complete job on the transmission (with unedited problems) that is very helpful. I'd like to not go there if possible. I think I'll replace this bearing and try it. Worst case is it isn't wasted effort and getting to the same depth again doesn't take long.
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  20. Eatmore Mudd

    Eatmore Mudd Mischief on wheels.

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    Fun fact. If the guts of Albion 4 speed remind anyone of the drive gearing of a horizontal lathe it's because Albion was a pretty big name in lathe gear boxes long before they started making bike transmissions.