New Thumper: SWM Superdual 650

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by tangerine, Jan 15, 2015.

  1. MotoSly

    MotoSly Adventurer

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    I don't know, but tbh, the problems already started before the 2" rizers. But indeed, maybe keep an eye on it, you could even make it longer just a few cm to be ahead of any future trouble.
    cyclopathic and MM2020 like this.
  2. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

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    Had problem with clutch switch on my V-strom (RIP) many years ago with aftermarket levers loose you had to wiggle clutch to get switch engage.. and you couldn't bypasses it as it was used to manage ECU maps. It's just you think of it when it happens your memory is as good as your last issue.

    Thnx for sharing talked to friend with whom my bike is stored; haven't seen it almost a year and a half. He had hard time start it to get battery charge.. maybe mine needs to be checked too.
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  3. MotoSly

    MotoSly Adventurer

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    Yeah maybe your SWM has it too.. well you know what to look for now.
    Must be shit to not have your SWM for a year now!
  4. Hipster

    Hipster Long timer

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    Cyclopathic,
    Do you think the AJP PR7 (w/ license plate) would make a good dual sport bike or is the Superdual 650 a much better choice?

    I use to ride a KTM 640 Adv, which I regret selling.
  5. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

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    How tall are you? Can you plate non-50 state legal bike in your state?

    SWM Superdual is heavier, has 2" less of travel and clearance, lower seat. It is 50state, $1100 cheaper than AJP and comes loaded with engine guards, skid plate and center stand. For me PR7 is out of question can't plate it and it is too tall but it is a better bike at least it is lighter with longer legs and tablet..
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  6. Hipster

    Hipster Long timer

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    I’m 5’ 10’’, but my KTM 640 had a 37” seat hight so I’m ok with tall bikes. I could probably get it plated in near by South Dakota.
    Have both the AJP and Superdual been pretty reliable (other then the AJP fuel pump issue)?
  7. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

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    Check AJP thread they both have the same engine so that should be about the same. Friend of mine has his apart now for next season he said that some bearings were good and some weren't as they didn't have the seals on them.. he is fixing that. Check AJP thread they would have more info. SD should be good the AJP dealer I spoke to said that bike he sold was registered there.

    If you own 640 I don't think neither Superdual nor PR7 would be any worse and likely better..
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  8. Snowy

    Snowy Long timer

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    Had a starting issue develop that's really weird. I see some others having similar, so here's what happened.

    I used to start the Superdual and let it warm up sitting on the side stand. Neutral, push the button, no worries.

    Then one day out of the blue, push the starter...and it slow cranks. Just not quite fast enough to fire up. It tries...coughs farts...doesn't get there. I cycled the ignition, and got it to fire after 3 or 4 cycles (waiting for the fuel pump to prime each time).

    So my friend goes to start it, it slow cranks, and he kicks the side stand up, starts no issue. I never used to do that. It started side stand down. I started testing the interlocks the other day, and the clutch one is about 14 ohms. Open or closed. So I think it's stuffed. I did a temp bypass on it, but no difference.

    So now when I want to start it, I put the side stand up, hit the button, it starts first go easy. I tightened the starter motor positive connector, the nut closest to the housing was loose, and it seems to spin a little quicker. It has a new battery in it. 30% more cold cranking amps than standard.

    Still slow cranks stand down. Starts easy stand up. I'm thinking maybe there's some kind of electric operated decompressor? Maybe? Nothing else really makes sense. The side stand switch is in the starter control circuit, and should either work or not work. It shouldn't have any effect on the cranking speed.

    My friend put it down to "Italian electronics and built in character".

    Anyone else had the slow crank thing?
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  9. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

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    The decompressor is mechanical one no electronics.

    Not sure how it is done on SWM but on some bikes with Aprilian roots kickstand/clutch switch kills ignition the engine will still crank.
  10. heilong

    heilong Been here awhile

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    Hello everyone! I've been without a motorbike for 5 years. My last one was a Kawasaki KLX250 "adventure" bike (it was for me), which for 4 years I rode in Thailand and a bit more elsewhere in SouthEast Asia. Before that I lived in Russia and had a Honda XR250. I've never head any street bikes - if you don't count a Chinese-made 125cc scooter, my first engine-powered two-wheeler which I sold after a year (with half of the nuts and bolts falling off by that time).

    Now I have a family and live in Luxembourg, where I enjoy the occasional mountain biking around the local hills. But since I came here, and especially when I drive the family minivan around the twisty roads in the hills, the urge to have a motorbike is getting stronger and stronger. I've only ever had light dual-sports, so that was naturally my first idea, however as far as I can see, here it's illegal to ride a motorbike on the majority of trails around here.

    That got me thinking it would make more sense to buy a bigger, more powerful (and heavy) motorbike that would be comfortable to ride on the road, while still being able to take the occasional mild single-track, if I can find one where I can ride legally. As I'm used to light dual-sport bikes, I would like an adventure bike that is not too big&heavy (800-1200cc adventure bikes), and that handles similar to a dual-sport.

    I've been looking at Super Dual, which seems to fit the bill, for a couple of years already, and finally I got a nice freelance job pop up, that will pay for a bike around it's price (which is 7600 EUR from a dealer in the north of Germany, plus 200 for delivery). Being used to 21/18 wheels, I'm thinking about the X, although if I'm going to be doing a lot of riding on the road, perhaps the T would be actually better? I am 190cm tall (6' 3") so the slightly taller seat height of the X sounds more like a pro for me, not a con. After reading my story, what do you think guys? Is this a good choice for me, or would you recommend something else instead?

    Besides the few reviews and the official SWM Italy page with it's Quick and Full manuals, I couldn't find a great deal of information on the bike. There's this huge topic, of which I read various pages, but it would be good to have some sort of summary, if it exists somewhere. I'm reasonably good with a (torque) wrench and prefer to do most if not all motorbike maintenance by myself, so for me it's important to get enough technical info on a bike. The SWM's Full manual seems much better than a typical owner's manual, but it still appears to be less than a proper workshop service manual. It does have some service procedures and tightening torques, but is it good enough in your opinion? I suspect that some parts of TE630 service manual - which I was able to download - would probably apply to the Super Dual as well. Is that the case?

    Will appreciate any advice, suggestions and pointers.

    Thanks guys. Take care.
    Gene from Russia/Thailand/Luxembourg.
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  11. [Savior]

    [Savior] Adventurer

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    Hey guys!

    I just got a CRF250L last April, and I really like it...but sometimes i wish i had something a lil bit more road oriented and powerful. And i kind of like the idea of having an exotic brand bike in my garage...

    So anyways...a dealer arround 50km away from my hood, has a '18 Superdual T (650km on the oddo) with luggage system, for basically 50% of its original retail price. I saw it in November and ... its still for sale now. Of course it is...., because nobody really knows SWM here in central europe and nothing is known about their reliability...and thats where my 2nd thoughts kick in.

    I am pretty sure i can do things like valve checking and so on by myself, even though I have never done it, im planing to do it on my Honda and if i get it - on the SWM too. I even found the Service-Book for the Superdual online.

    The questions are, would you guys recommend getting one (for that price)? Is it reliable for beeing used as an every day commuter bike and short travels? And i mean especially the electronics and all the parts you cant just easily fix at home with a lil bit of fiddeling and trying. In a german Forum I read about faulty ECUs that take ages to get fixed, because the original wholesaler changed. It kind of makes me anxious to see, that even SWM Italy hasnt really updated their homepage since 2018 and they only made the bike for like 2 yrs. All in all the SMW seems (!) like the perfect bike. A good old thumper with a nice chassis/brakes for an unbelievable price. But also kind of finiky. So good idea or €-grave that I'm going to regret after 3 months?

    Ride safe and stay healty,
    Christoph
  12. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

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    Not sure what your expectations are; obviously people on this thread not rushing to get rid of theirs, and if someone didn't like SD and moved on he wouldn't be here, right?

    As for the bike it has its flows, subframe/passenger peg bolts for one, kickstand too close to center line, etc but would I buy slightly used 2018 for half price? hell yeah! Should you buy one? That is your decision.
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  13. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

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    Yes TE-630 manuals are good there are not many differences between 630 and Superdual and where they are you don't need new manuals. IIRC the biggest one is exhaust valve gap.

    As for your height go to showroom and check the dutch 6'2" kid who tried mine was complaining that knee space was tight. Ergonomics similar to what you typically find on dirt bike or KTM, short cockpit.

    Bike is more or less reliable, at least it had been more reliable than my BMW and less than my japanese bikes.

    And what bikes else to look at? If you are in the market for new light dirt capable thumper based ADV bike check AJP PR7, Husky 701 LR.. I would also add Fantic Caballero and KTM 390 Adventure. I absolutely like my Superdual and would buy it again but I would likely be happy any of bikes in the list good luck..
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  14. heilong

    heilong Been here awhile

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    Thanks for your reply cyclopathic.

    Good to hear that the TE-630 manual would be adequate.

    I've checked SWM's German site for a list of dealers, and contacted several nearest ones.
    They all told me that they don't sell the Super Dual anymore. The model is not on SWM Germany website, either.
    One dealer mentioned it's an "old model". I'm wondering if it's discontinued? SWM's Italian site still has it, but to be honest it looks like they don't bother much to update their website, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's just not up to date.

    One SWM dealer in Germany - Zweiradcenter Jansen, next to the north border (some 800 km from me) - still has the Super Duals, produced in 2019. No discount due to not being 2020. Here's what they told me (translated from German): "In 2020, this model was not built due to the Corona crisis and mainly only concerned with the RS and SM as well as vintage models. That gave us the occasion to buy up the complete Superdual models of the last production of all surrounding importers in Northern Europe. And thus being the last dealer to be able to offer the model."
    It could mean either model is completely discontinued, or just that they put it on hold for the moment. Does anyone know for sure?

    Since the dealer is 800 km away (also Germany is under lockdown now), it's not so easy to just visit the showroom to sit on the bike. Although it does sound a bit stupid buying a bike without ever sitting on it?
    Maybe I should curb my enthusiasm and wait until the COVID situation normalizes and I can visit some showrooms to check some bikes. Thanks for the list of alternative models you would consider!

    Take care!
    Gene
  15. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

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    I doubt it was discontinued but there could be issues with Euro5 compliance. Factory is located in Varese Italy 30km north of Milano, in area which was hit hard by pandemic. I would say give them a call or send email, there are several people in factory who speak very good english. Factory is backed by chinese money so I doubt they would have gone belly up, but there were serious lockdown restrictions so factory must have been closed for duration of time.

    How severe restrictions in germany now?
  16. heilong

    heilong Been here awhile

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    Yeah I heard about the area getting hit hard with COVID. I will give them a call on Monday to find out about the situation.
    Germany is under pretty strict lockdown until at least mid-February. All non-essential shops are closed, I reckon that would include motorcycle dealers.

    I was thinking about how would I go about purchasing a helmet in these days. Once I've bought a helmet online without trying it on, and was more or less lucky,
    but generally it's a pretty bad idea and trying on is important. I can't imagine how motorbike shops handle letting customers try on helmets, spraying them with alcohol after every try-on or something?

    Then your comment about actually visiting a showrom to sit on the bike made me realize. I worry about trying a <$500 helmet before buying, why didn't I think to worry about trying a $$$ motorbike before buying?
    I should hold my horses and wait until I'm actually able to visit a showroom. And perhaps try a few different models to compare as well.

    Looking at the other motorbikes you mentioned.
    AJP PR7 - I was looking at this company before. What put me off a bit - a Samsung (or whatever other brand) Android tablet on an Adventure motorbike seems like a ridiculously bad idea. Although I suppose it might be an optional feature. What put me off a bit more - and I see the situation hadn't changed - lack of information on where/for how much can I buy it. 3 nearest dealers are several hundred km from me, and neither of them provide any details or prices on the bike. Official AJP specs PDF on the 2021 model forgets to mention such small details as weight. The motorbike could be good, of course. But such approach to marketing makes me worried already.

    Husky Enduro 701 looks quite interesting, but is it really ok without a subframe? There is some good looking Adventure kit available for it from Nomad ADV. But the price... Looks like 701 is about 12k EUR, plus 1.5-2k for the ADV kit.

    Maybe I should look at second-hand Japanese dual-sports once again, heh...
  17. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

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    For the helmets I buy online and stick to brand which fits my nuggin well - HJC.

    For AJP PR7 info check AJP PR7 thread. The friend of mine has it and likes it. Bike has similar to Husky under the seat tank setup and will be lighter than Superdual.. for one it has cromo/Aluminum frame like X-Challenge, and it has single exhaust. Exactly the same SWM engine as Superdual but tuned for slightly more HP. IIRC they list weight as 157kg not sure if this is dry, wet or empty tank/ready to ride.

    I would only consider 701LR which is €500 more and comes with 2nd tank (25L total), comfy seat and stiffer springs. Regular 701 is dualsport and waste of money IMHO.
  18. heilong

    heilong Been here awhile

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    Yeah, it's good when you've found your preferred brand of helmet and can just keeping buying them. Lucky that HJC fits you - they are great helmets and reasonably priced. A bit too loose on my head...
    Ironically, the helmet that fitted me really good was a 50 EUR "Real" helmet (brand name) that I bought in Thailand. I'm now looking at a big higher range offerings :)

    I will check the AJP thread. It does sound interesting in theory, but it's a bit discouraging that I can't even find price/dealer information. Maybe - as seems to be common in EU - I have to just give them a call.
    I wanted to see if there are any second hand ones, one of most popular site for cars/motorbikes is mobile.de - turns out they don't even have AJP in the motorbike brand name dropdown...
    But at least the company seems to be in business as they advertise the 2021 model on their website.

    701LR seems to be a USA-specific model. Not seeing them on the European Husqvarna website.
  19. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Long timer

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  20. heilong

    heilong Been here awhile

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    Maybe I'm blind, but I can't find it on their website, which looks pretty but is not very functional in terms of finding information and specs. I see in Enduro > Dual Sport section only one model, 701 Enduro, no mention of LR. Actually googling Husqvarna 701 LR gives a link to a page on the Husqvarna website, but following the link results in a 404 error. Maybe the model is gone in 2021?
    I really don't understand it, here I am with some money to spend on a motorbike, but it seems like a quest just to track down a dealer and find out the price. SWM, AJP, Husqvarna - more or less the same story. It's like if they were not really into selling motorbikes...