New (to Me) 2000 Kawasaki W650

Discussion in 'Road Warriors' started by The Jerk, Oct 11, 2009.

  1. Scoozi

    Scoozi Long timer

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    Hey, I never said I wasn't a hypocrite :D

    Also while I like Ducati's (and that new Royal Enfield Interceptor) I'm indifferent to Bonneviles, I consider them overrated.
  2. BravoFox

    BravoFox Twin With a Kick

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    You got my vote on all counts !
  3. The Jerk

    The Jerk Bring us some fresh wine!

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    Thanks for the update! I was not aware of that. Clearly I haven't been paying attention. :D
  4. The Jerk

    The Jerk Bring us some fresh wine!

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    Coming soon:

    [​IMG]
    mitchxout likes this.
  5. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Transient

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    I think putting the wrong trademark on a bike is disrespectful to both marques. How about a nice Fiero kit car with Ferrari emblems?

    Actually, a pretty poor example, anything would improve a Fiero. lol
  6. The Jerk

    The Jerk Bring us some fresh wine!

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    Rebuilding the front brake caliper.

    Caliper Types

    Let's talk about disc brakes for a sec. There are two types of calipers out there: fixed and floating. A fixed caliper is rigidly mounted to the vehicle and has a hydraulic pistons behind each brake pad. When you apply the brake, the pistons behind the pads push the pads into contact with the rotor.

    The other type is a floating caliper. This is what the W650 has. A floating caliper only has hydraulic pistons behind one of the brake pads. The caliper is mounted to some kind of holder and is allowed to slide on lubricated pins. When you apply the brake, the pistons behind the pad push the pad into contact with the rotor while at the same time pulling the entire caliper body (sliding on its mounting pins) toward the rotor thus clamping the rotor between the two pads.

    I don't know what the plusses and minuses are from a manufacturing or cost standpoint as far as why you'd choose one type over the other. But from a service standpoint, a floating caliper needs a little extra attention paid as all those sliding bits need to remain lubricated in order for the brake to work properly.

    Symptoms

    I was getting some symptoms of what I thought was a dragging brake so I decided to do a caliper teardown and rebuild. One of the symptoms was a rhythmic "sh sh sh sh" sound in time with wheel rotation especially after the brakes heated up. It sounded to be coming from the front wheel. I thought maybe the disc was warped but last time I had the wheel off I checked the disc runout with a dial gauge and it was well within spec. The other symptom was a variation in lever feel - sometimes it would feel "higher" or "firmer" than others, again especially after some use. This made me think I had a piston in the caliper that was perhaps not retracting smoothly.

    Given that the bike is nearly 20 years old and I'm pretty certain the caliper has never been rebuilt, I figured I'd go ahead and take the time to rejuvenate it.

    Brake Maintenance and Brake Fluid

    You should know that replacing the brake fluid is part of the usual maintenance schedule of the bike. You are supposed to replace the brake fluid every two years, regardless of mileage. The reason is that brake fluid is hygroscopic, meaning that it absorbs moisture from the air. Over time, this absorbed moisture lowers the boiling point of the brake fluid. This is a problem because the brakes get hot in operation (the whole point of a brake is to convert kinetic energy into heat). While the brake fluid is liquid, it works great because liquids are generally not compressible. That property makes them great for transmitting force in a hydraulic system. However, if the fluid were to get hot enough to boil, you would basically have vapor bubbles in the brake fluid. Gas bubbles are very compressible, so if this were to happen, the brake fluid would no longer effectively be able to transmit hydraulic pressure. This could result in a partial or total loss of braking capability.

    When you to go the store to shop for brake fluid, you are likely to see DOT 3, DOT 4, and DOT 5. You want DOT 4. DOT 3 and DOT 4 brake fluids are both made of the same type of chemical, a glycol ether base. The difference is that DOT 4 has a higher boiling point than DOT 3. Otherwise both DOT 3 and DOT 4 are compatible and mixable with each other.

    Don't think, however, that because DOT 4 is good, DOT 5 is better. DOT 5 is a completely different formula, silicone-based. It is NOT compatible with DOT 3 and DOT 4. If you want to use DOT 5, you have to basically replace every brake component that has any rubber in it. You cannot use it in systems that have previously been filled with DOT 3 or DOT 4.

    Kawasaki specifies DOT 4 for the W650. I have in the past seen brake fluid in certain parts stores that meets both DOT 4 and DOT 3 specs (I think Valvoline makes one) in which case it's basically DOT 4. You can use that. Today my local store did not have the dual version, so bought a bottle of Pentosin DOT 4 fluid. Kawasaki specified DOT 4 for a reason, so do NOT use DOT 3. Also, to do this job you will need an unopened bottle of fluid, not one that's been sitting open (seal broken) on the shelf for a couple years in your garage. Brake fluid absorbs moisture from the air. Don't use fluid from a bottle that's been opened.

    [​IMG]

    Also note that BRAKE FLUID EATS PAINT. If you spill brake fluid on any painted surface, rinse it immediately with cold water. If you leave it on, it will take the paint right off.

    Note also, that according to the service manual, Kawasaki expects you to do this job (replace caliper fluid and dust seals) every other time that you replace brake pads.

    Tools & Supplies Needed

    - Torque wrench
    - Ratchet with extensions
    - 12mm socket
    - 8mm socket
    - 10mm wrench
    - Philips screwdriver
    - Drain pan
    - Shop towels
    - Jeweler's screwdriver
    - Scrap wood block approx. 1/2" thick
    - Bottle of DOT 4 brake fluid
    - Disc brake caliper grease
    - Ate brake cylinder assembly paste (optional)
    - Isopropyl or denatured alcohol
    - Small dish or tray to use as a parts cleaner
    - Bristle brush
    - Anti-seize lubricant
    - Brake bleeder kit or clear plastic tubing and a spare jar
    - Teflon tape or other thread sealant

    Parts List

    What parts you get here depends on how deep you want to go into this as well as what's damaged or worn. At the very least if you are going to remove the pistons from the caliper you should get a new set of fluid seals and dust seals. Naturally if anything is worn, damaged, or missing, you should replace it. Here's what I got (I wanted to replace all rubber on the caliper):

    [​IMG]

    (Note the parts pictured are the old parts)

    - Fluid seals, 43049-1092 x 2
    - Dust seals, 43049-1068 x 2
    - Crush washers, 49091-0001 x 2 (any time you remove one of the banjo bolts, you need to replace the crush washers at that connection. There are two per banjo bolt.)
    - Slider pin boot, 49006-1054 x 1
    - Slider pin boot, 49006-1095 x 1
    - Bleeder cap, 43057-003 x 1
    - Stopper spring, 92144-1831 x 1
    - Pad spring, 92144-1844 x 1
    - Pad pin, 92043-1489 x 1 (you only need this if yours is worn or bent)

    FYI all this stuff cost me less than $50. You may want to consider ordering new pistons as well. Mine turned out to be fine after some cleaning but if yours are bad then you could get stuck waiting for new ones before you can put the caliper back together. However, they are on the expensive side, about $35 each, so better if you can get yours cleaned up. Piston is p/n 43048-1073. However if you know the bike has been treated poorly, left outside, brake fluid hasn't been changed in 10 years etc, better prepare for new pistons.

    Caliper Removal

    OK step 1, let's locate the caliper! Put the bike up on the center stand with the bars/front wheel pointing straight ahead.

    Caliper:

    [​IMG]

    Grab your 12mm socket and a ratchet and remove the two caliper mounting bolts.

    Get your 8mm socket or wrench and remove the 8mm bolt just above the caliper that holds the brake fluid hose to the fork.

    Set those bolts in your magnetic bolt-holding tray.

    Wiggle the caliper off the rotor toward the rear of the bike.

    At the bottom of the caliper, locate the pin that goes through the bottom ears of both brake pads. On one end of the pad pin you will find a cotter pin holding it in place. Using a small screwdriver or a needle-nose pliers, remove the cotter pin and put it in your magnetic tray.

    [​IMG]

    Now you can remove the pad pin. Though the end of the pad pin has a hex head, it is not threaded and simply pulls out.

    As you hold the caliper on your hand, the pad on the right is the first one to come out. Simply swivel it upward to clear the caliper body, then slide it off the upper pin.

    You can then remove the inner pad by just pulling it out.

    NOTE: handle the pads carefully! Do not allow oil or brake fluid to come in contact with the friction surfaces. Do not touch the friction surfaces with your grubby hands! Put the pads aside somewhere safe where they won't get brake fluid spilled on them later.

    Now you can separate the caliper holder from the caliper. It just pulls apart. Set it aside for a moment.

    [​IMG]

    Now that the brake pads are out of the way, it's time to remove the pistons from the caliper. There are two ways to do this. The easy way is if you have access to compressed air. You can shoot compressed air into the caliper from the brake fluid hose connection to force the pistons out.

    I don't have compressed air. So I'm going to use the hydraulic pressure of the brake fluid to force the pistons out. This is why I have not disconnected the fluid hose yet. Set your drain pan below the caliper and get your scrap of wood in the caliper where the pads used to be.

    [​IMG]

    Now gently start squeezing the brake lever to begin to force the pistons out. The idea is that you want them both to come out at the same rate, so if you have one that's slower than the other (like I do above) then wedge something in between the faster one and the wood to keep it from moving while the other one catches up. You don't want to have a situation where one piston is completely out while the other one has barely moved, because then once you get past the point where the fluid seal stops working, you will lose hydraulic pressure and won't have any easy way to get the other piston out.

    So take your time and keep the piston egress even. By the time they get to the wood block then there's likely enough protruding piston to be able to remove it later even if you lose the hydraulics. When the pistons arrive to the wood block, remove the wood so it doesn't get pinned in there. Then, very slowly, squeeze the brake lever. At some point, one (or both) of the pistons will come out far enough that fluid will start leaking out. From there you're gonna have to wiggle them out by hand.

    Make sure you are holding the caliper over the drain pan as all your brake fluid is gonna dump out through the caliper once the pistons come out.

    Here's mine with the pistons almost all the way out. You can see that the dust seal is coming out with the upper piston:

    [​IMG]

    Once you get the pistons out, you'll see something like this:

    [​IMG]

    Hopefully it looks nice and clean/uncorroded in there like mine. Although note the pile of sludge in the lower bore. Gross.

    Now that you've got the pistons out, you can remove the hose connection from the caliper. However, you're probably not going to be able to do it with the caliper in your hand. So re-fit the caliper holder to the caliper and then mount the caliper back onto the fork (but don't worry about tightening down the caliper bolts, just do it by hand).

    Get your 12mm socket and loosen the banjo bolt where the fluid hose connects to the caliper. Remove the banjo bolt and discard the two crush washers. Now un-mount the caliper from the bike and take it over to your bench.

    Disassembly and Cleaning

    The job now is to fully strip the caliper and then thoroughly clean it.

    Remove the pad backing spring from the caliper body. Just get a jeweler's screwdriver underneath it and pry it up; it will pop out.

    Using a jeweler's screwdriver and great care, first remove the dust seals from the caliper bores, then the larger fluid seals.

    Remove the rubber boots that protect the caliper holder pins. The smaller one just pulls off. The long one is a little trickier, you have to pinch together the portion that extends through the caliper body so it will fit into the hole, then you pull it out.

    Remove the bleeder screw with your 10mm wrench.

    Once you have the caliper and caliper holder stripped, clean them thoroughly with your brush and in isopropyl or denatured alcohol. The service manual calls for isopropyl alcohol. A knowledgable guy who I trust says denatured alcohol is fine too. You can also clean the parts in brake fluid if you wish but that's pretty slippery. Clean the caliper, the caliper holder, the pistons, and all other metal parts.

    Once you get the pistons clean, take a good look at them. The sealing surface is the outside, so it needs to be free of corrosion, pitting, scratches, etc. You don't want anything that will snag on the seal to either cause a fluid leak or to prevent the piston from moving smoothly thus leading to a sticky piston. So really take as much time as you need to get the pistons really thoroughly clean.

    Also do a good job cleaning out the piston bores in the caliper. Get any sludge out as well as any crud in the seal channels.

    Once everything is thoroughly cleaned, then it's time to start putting stuff back together.

    Assembly

    First you can install the bleeder valve. If you are replacing the rubber cap, put that on the bleeder screw before you install it. Put a little teflon tape or other thread sealer on the screw threads (make sure not to block the fluid passage holes!) and then install the bleeder screw.

    Next it's time to install the new fluid and dust seals. For an assembly lubricant you can use brake fluid but I like this Ate brake assembly paste:

    [​IMG]

    I haven't seen it available in the US anywhere but you can find it on eBay. This 180g tube is a lifetime supply. For those who don't know, Ate is one of the larger German OEM brake component manufacturers. They were VW's OEM back in VW's heyday (and probably still are) and they make quality stuff.

    Line the piston bores with the assembly paste, the insert the fluid seals into their channels in the bores. The service manual notes that it doesn't matter which way the fluid seals face (there's no inner or outer face). Then fit the dust seals into their channels. Coat the seals with the assembly paste (or brake fluid). You'll have something like this (the goo in the bores is the Ate assembly paste):

    [​IMG]

    Now coat the pistons with the assembly paste (or brake fluid) and insert them into their bores, pushing them in as far as they will go.

    [​IMG]

    Now install the pad spring into the caliper body and the rubber boots for the caliper holder pins. The long rubber boot is a little tricky - put some of the caliper lube on the tip of the boot and then you will be able to get it through the hole pretty easily. Wipe off any excess lube once you've got it in place.

    At this point, we should be looking like this:

    [​IMG]

    Now is a good time to prep the caliper holder. If you removed the little stopper spring or if you're replacing it, it goes here:

    [​IMG]

    They cleverly designed it so it only can go on the correct way.

    Get out your disc brake caliper lube

    [​IMG]

    and lubricate the pins on the caliper holder.

    [​IMG]

    I also like to put a light smear of the caliper grease on the stopper spring on the caliper holder, since one of the pads slides on that.

    Fit the caliper holder to the caliper, ensuring that the boots engage correctly over the lips on the caliper holder to keep the elements out. Now you should be looking like this:

    [​IMG]

    I also like to put a light smear of caliper grease on the two shiny surfaces you see on the caliper body above and also on the high points of the pad spring. Anywhere there is metal-to-metal sliding.

    Now it's time to fit the brake pads. The smaller one goes on the inner (piston) side while the large one goes over the upper pin and then swivels down into place. Once the pads are in place you can fit the pad pin (grease it with caliper grease before installing) and then fit the cotter pin to keep the pad pin in place. Now it should look like this:

    [​IMG]

    Now it's time to put the caliper back on the bike.

    Caliper Installation

    Mount the caliper back on the bike and torque the mounting bolts to 25 ft.-lbs. I like to put a little anti-seize on these bolts before installation. Re-install the 8mm bolt that holds the brake hose to the fork.

    Using new crush washers(!!!), install the banjo bolt and fluid fitting to the caliper. One washer between the hose fitting and caliper, one washer between banjo bolt and hose fitting. Torque the banjo bolt to 25 ft.-lbs.

    Bleeding the Brakes

    Now that the caliper is back on the bike, all you have to do now is get the caliper full of brake fluid and get all the air out.

    This process is called bleeding the brakes. The W650 is really easy to bleed in the traditional manner, so you don't need fancy vacuum bleeders or pressure bleeders or anything like that. All you need is a length of clear plastic tubing that will fit snugly over the bleeder screw and a jar.

    Go up to the brake fluid reservoir on the handlebars and remove the two Philips screws that hold the cover on.

    Remove the black metal cover and set it aside. Again note that brake fluid will damage paint. You may wish to lay down some shop towels on the tank to catch any drips.

    Underneath the black cover you will observe a white plastic doodad with a rubber seal doodad underneath it.

    [​IMG]

    Remove the white plastic part and set it aside. Do the same with the rubber bit.

    Take a look inside the reservoir. You will see a line inscribed around the interior. This is the maximum fluid level line.

    [​IMG]

    Open up your new bottle of DOT 4 brake fluid and fill the reservoir to the fill line.

    PROTIP: Place the black rubber doodad back in the reservoir when bleeding the brakes. I have found through hard experience that if you leave it uncovered, it will shoot fluid out of the reservoir and all over your tank when you work the brake lever. The black doodad will keep that from happening.

    It is VERY IMPORTANT when bleeding the brakes that you do not let the fluid level in the reservoir fall below the "LOW" mark visible on the outside of the reservoir next to the sight glass. If you let the fluid level drop too low, you can suck air into the master cylinder and then you will have to start the whole bleeding process all over again. Make sure you top the fluid off as you go before the level gets too low.

    Now go down to the caliper and rig up your brake bleeding apparatus. This is mine:

    [​IMG]

    You can get the process started by simple gravity. Get your 10mm wrench and open the bleeder screw until you see fluid and bubbles starting to come out on their own. Keep an eye on the reservoir sight glass, which is luckily easy to do from this position.

    Once the natural gravity flow stops, close the bleeder. Reach up and pump the lever a few times, then hold the lever down (it probably goes right to the bar at this point). Open the bleeder and some fluid with bubbles will come out. Close the bleeder, THEN release the lever. Repeat this process until the fluid that is coming out is free of bubbles and the lever feels firm. Remember to keep an eye on the sight glass. You will likely have to refill the reservoir 2 or 3 times during this process.

    What's it gonna look like? Like this:



    Note that in this video I'm just squeezing the lever to show what it will look like as fluid and air come out. When you're bleeding the brakes, you should a) close the bleeder b) pump the lever c) hold the lever d) open the bleeder while holding the lever e) close the bleeder f) then release the lever. This prevents bubbles that have escaped from getting sucked back in like in the video.

    Once you have gotten all the air out, bleed out any extra fluid so that the fluid level in the reservoir is at the max. line. Then put the black rubber bit in, then the white plastic bit, then the metal cap. Tighten the screws down but don't go nuts, they don't need to be super tight.

    Now go for a test ride!
    mitchxout likes this.
  7. BravoFox

    BravoFox Twin With a Kick

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    1,748
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    It's your angle. I think the Fiero beats any Ferrari in terms of handling and reliability. :ksteve

    Okay seriously now....
    In the UK over the last few years a strong "W-Tribute" movement has emerged, with 'Homage bikes" winning classic bike shows. We might or might not like it, but some of those Ws are areally impressive pieces of work, not merely a couple of Triumph tank badges and a respray.


    $_571.jpg 8502882B3016051600101.jpg IMG_8611-1024x768.jpg d0431908b76242568e571375a541d8e6.jpg
    mitchxout and Tritwin like this.
  8. mattsz

    mattsz moto-gurdyist

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    Another winner, thanks!!! :beer
  9. jimbo-drxc

    jimbo-drxc Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2015
    Oddometer:
    14
    Location:
    Devon, England
    Hello W people, 1st time poster from the UK here. Bought this 2001 registered, but earlier manufactured according to the frame & engine nos., in July & have been sorting it out since. A month before that I sold my 2011 W800 (to a friend who was pestering me) to buy a Bonnie Scrambler as I had this itch to have a Triumph but soon missed having a Dub. Had a red/black tanked W650 A3 until about 5 yrs ago (one of those "should never have sold it" bikes). Anyway, found this one fairly locally, good price & sound but a bit scruffy/dirty, 15k miles, standard apart from braided brake hose + rack & topbox.
    Was lucky to find a new Motad exhaust system at a great price & have removed the air injection junk & various other small non-essential parts, fitted Lucas rear light, Triumph knee grips (excellent, which is good as I've cut off the brackets), alloy bars of a lovely shape (but not quite a matching shade of blue sadly). Got some headlamp brackets waiting to replace the shrouds when I find some smaller indicators I like the look of.
    Other jobs will be to change the fork oil, fit some preload spacers, replace the rear shocks sometime &, if I feel extravagant, have the wheels rebuilt with stainless spokes.
    This one's a keeper - the Scrambler, not so sure.
    Great thread by the way - gradually working my way through a few pages at a time!

    Attached Files:

    Nebraska650, Scoozi and Tritwin like this.
  10. ORexpat

    ORexpat Oregon Expatriate Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2007
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    3,843
    Location:
    West of Seattle . . .
    :thumbup

    Welcome to the asylum!

    Nice looking bike. And while I'm not sure about the color (colour??) of those handlebars, the bend looks fabulous.
    mitchxout likes this.
  11. BravoFox

    BravoFox Twin With a Kick

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    The video that started it all (for me at least)

  12. jas67

    jas67 Long timer

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    I suspect that when these become available on the used market, it'll put downward pressure on the W650 prices.

  13. ChopperCharles

    ChopperCharles Long timer

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    If you have crystallized brake fluid in the caliper, hit it with a propane torch for a few seconds. It's not hot enough to damage the aluminum, and it turns the crystallized brake fluid into dust. Usually it crystallizes into gunk in the channel the seal rides in, which presses the seal very hard against the piston, and causes stuck pistons. Normally this would take eons of cleaning with picks and small screwdrivers and green scotchbrite pads. If you flash the gunky crusty brake fluid residue into dust with a torch, it takes a quarter of the time to clean. Just keep it pointed at the seal ridge, and don't let the heat concentrate for more than 5 seconds in any one area. (Really you can't hurt the caliper, and you're unlikely to even hurt the paint)

    You have to make SURE the ridge that the seal rides in is *COMPLETELY* clean.

    Charles.
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  14. The Jerk

    The Jerk Bring us some fresh wine!

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    ^^^ this a great tip, thanks!
  15. jimbo-drxc

    jimbo-drxc Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2015
    Oddometer:
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    Location:
    Devon, England
    Front wheel removal - why can't I do it?

    Been trying to remove front wheel from my new to me W (see above) but can't shift the axle. Both 6 mm Allen bolts removed, axle will turn using 12 mm Allen socket but can't pull it out. Possibly the left side spacer is seized onto the axle (it turns with the axle but not separately). Tried bashing with hammer but no joy. I do have bigger hammers. Any ideas please guys?
  16. BravoFox

    BravoFox Twin With a Kick

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    You need two 12 mil Allen wrenches, one each side, and the axle will just come out easily.
  17. jimbo-drxc

    jimbo-drxc Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2015
    Oddometer:
    14
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    ah, rats, I thought it was good that I had one 12mm Allen, will try to find another.
    Thanks for prompt response.
  18. BravoFox

    BravoFox Twin With a Kick

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    No problem
  19. ChairmanMaose

    ChairmanMaose OneLessCar

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  20. BravoFox

    BravoFox Twin With a Kick

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    Thanks, but cafe racer and other "custom" bike stuff is not my cup of tea at all.