New (to Me) 2000 Kawasaki W650

Discussion in 'Road Warriors' started by The Jerk, Oct 11, 2009.

  1. BravoFox

    BravoFox Twin With a Kick

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    MITAS Classic in 3.25 F and 4.00 R
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  2. southnorthtraveller

    southnorthtraveller Adventurer

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    there are different types of mitas classics
    How they works?
    Sadly, I have negative references with mitas, not on the bike, but on bicycle
  3. BravoFox

    BravoFox Twin With a Kick

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    Great tires. Great value. €110 for a set of two, installed and balanced. Very good mileage, much better than the €100 - a - piece ContiGo I used to have!
    H02 front and H06 rear for reference.
  4. Dirty Dicks Motos

    Dirty Dicks Motos n00b

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  5. Webman

    Webman Long timer

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  6. cnoonz

    cnoonz Been here awhile

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    Hi all,
    I'm curious as to what results other inmates have had, in trying to reduce W650 engine RPM, at highway speeds. What is the largest front sprocket and the smallest rear that others have used and what were the results. Because my NortSaki ( custom chrome-moly Featherbed frame and W650 motor) build project will be a solo bike and considerably lighter then a stock W, I'm hoping to find a front/rear combo that will work, reducing vibes and increasing mpg. Thanks for any info that you can provide.
    C
  7. cnoonz

    cnoonz Been here awhile

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  8. BravoFox

    BravoFox Twin With a Kick

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    I don't have the precise answer, but in my experience the OEM ratio is just perfect, very well balanced for both back roads and highways.

    When I changed the chain a couple months ago, I went for a shorter ratio as per Martin's (from W650 shop fame) chart. From the OEM 15/39 I went to 14/40, so opposite what you want to achieve (I had in mind our old DTMX and XL125 from the mid-seventies, when a one-tooth change would totally change the bike's character!)

    I end up with a bike that is hardly more agile than before, however which runs for the same speed 1000 to 1200 rpm faster, with increase fuel consumption.
    The difference was just not worth the trouble and I will revert to OEM ratio at the next change. Very disappointed.

    There is a strong possibility going the opposite way produces similar results.
    Then again...
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  9. cnoonz

    cnoonz Been here awhile

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    [QUOTE="BravoFox,I end up with a bike that is hardly more agile than before, however which runs for the same speed 1000 to 1200 rpm faster, with increase fuel consumption.
    The difference was just not worth the trouble and I will revert to OEM ratio at the next change. Very disappointed.

    There is a strong possibility going the opposite way produces similar results.
    Then again...



    Bravo Fox,
    Thanks for the response, Your results would indicate that my current high gear @ 53mph at 3000 rpm, would become @ 64mph. which would be desirable, as long as the motor still has enough guts to have some passing acceleration left without downshifting. Is the chart you referred to available somewhere? Do you have a link, or a page number for this thread that has it?
    I suppose I could try a less drastic approach, by just bumping up the front sprocket by one tooth. However, I'd like to hear from any W650 owners that have tried this approach, in case there might be a downside, like clearance problems with the case, etc. If there are no issues and I liked the change, and felt I'd like to go more, I could then drop a tooth or two on the rear without having to buy another chain.
    C
  10. Manifold

    Manifold Long timer

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  11. BravoFox

    BravoFox Twin With a Kick

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    Sure.
    Here it is. Scroll down to the chart.

    http://www.w650shop.de/Service/service.html
  12. southnorthtraveller

    southnorthtraveller Adventurer

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    No need to reduce RPM at highway speed.
    5000, even 6000 don't hurt the engine. It's a truly motorcycle modern engine. More RPM means more oil pressure, more engine protection.
    If high rpm annoying you, perhaps you choose a wrong motorcycle, or wrong way to use it.
    Most comfortable speed up to 110 km/h.
    Even on uphill or during overrunning I had to switch 4th gear
  13. kfoster

    kfoster Been here awhile

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    I (and others) have observed that the bike actually has less vibration at over 3,000 rpm. It may be that the balance shaft was designed to give the engine “character” when bopping around town, but reveals its modern character when spinning more quickly, The stock gearing does make for a pretty smooth ride at highway speeds.
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  14. cnoonz

    cnoonz Been here awhile

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    Thanks Bravo for the graph, I've printed a copy of it. Though it won't be soon, as I have much work still to do on my Nort-Saki. I'll let you know how my final gearing works out.
    c
  15. discoganya

    discoganya Engineer, Rider, Dad

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    I almost never ride the W below 3000rpm. It is happiest between 4000 and 6000 rpm.
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  16. JETalmage

    JETalmage Long timer

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    My W is an 800, but assuming the same general design philosophy is likely, there's another aspect to this that might be worth considering: the tires.

    A particular new W800 owner posted a video on YouTube in which he raves about 'correcting' the W's speedo (which is a bit optimistic, as they commonly are on bikes) to match his GPS: 70 MHP at 4000 RPM. He did this by installing a one-tooth larger countershaft sprocket.

    A bit curious myself about whether the 800 could pull a little more gearing, I decided to give it a try and changed the sprocket when I was installing the wheels after replacing the worn-out originals. It actually resulted in a noticeably over-geared condition; loosing some speed on modest inclines at 65~75 MPH.

    I put the stock sprocket back on and found that I was indeed now matching my own GPS: 70 MPH right at 4000 RPM. Here's the thing:

    The stock tires are pretty thin. Mine were actually showing cord at just 4000 miles. I elected to replace them with Dunlop Trailmax Mission tires, because I really liked those tires on a previous bike. They were the same nominal tire sizes as the stock tires, but were obviously a little larger in real-world circumference, due to the significantly thicker tread. Just by installing meatier tires, I had effectively raised the gearing about the same as the YouTube guy had done by changing the sprocket. So by also changing the sprocket, I had actually overshot his results.

    I'm very fond of the Trailmax Mission tires (have already put 9000 miles on them, and they're not near worn out); but I'm not telling everyone to rush out and buy the same tires I like. My point is simply that I suspect most more 'modern style' tires will have thicker tread than the stock ones do, and if so that does affect the gearing somewhat.

    The 800 can tolerate a one-tooth increase on the counter-sprocket, but not two, and not an 'effective two' by going up one tooth and installing thicker-tread tires.

    In other words, the 800's stock gearing is pretty much just right; after you put decent tires on it. You might find the same to be true of the 650.

    JET
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  17. cnoonz

    cnoonz Been here awhile

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    Thanks, JET, for posting your findings. I will admit, the tire factor is not one I had considered. However, the bike I'm building is more of a Cafe Racer, with some considerations for the fact that the builder is rapidly approaching his 74th birthday. No clip-ons, and a more relaxed riding position. I'm calling it a "Gentleman's Express". I'm putting a Kawasaki W650 motor in a FrameCrafters "Fat Featherbed" chrome-moly frame. Definitely, not a candidate for a semi-knobby 50/50 tire. But when it comes time for tire selection, I'll keep your tire advice in mind, and factor in tire profile and O.D.
    C[/QUOTE]
  18. ORexpat

    ORexpat Oregon Expatriate Supporter

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    Just a side note on those Dunlop Mission Trail tires. While I have Pirelli Sport Demon's on my Dub--and like them--they haven't been on long enough to judge longevity. But I've had the Dunlop's on my KTM 790S ADV for over 11,000 miles and they've still got life left. I've taken two long trips, run gravel roads and bits of the WABDR, taught a dozen MSF Advanced Rider Course's, and generally abused them for over a year. They feel fantastic on pavement with lots of grip while running significant lean angles. They've done a ton of highway miles while having good dirt and gravel traction. I've done a bunch of hard braking demos too. It's way more than a 50/50 tire; more like an "80/80" if you'll forgive my math transgression. I'm very happy with their traction and wear!

    Having said that, they'd sure look funny on a "real" cafe racer. Would look more like those custom hipster bikes; the guys who build a street custom and put on full knobby tires because they look cool, even though they don't handle well . . . .

    I'm anxious to see how you're bike looks when it's done!
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  19. BravoFox

    BravoFox Twin With a Kick

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    Pleasure all mine sir.

    Yes please, let us know.
  20. BravoFox

    BravoFox Twin With a Kick

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    Not sure I get your point.
    Taller tires -read taller walls- would possibly induce the effect you are describing.
    Which would also mean the 80% of width (in 130/80/18) would actually be more than 80%. Or, the tire width would be more than 130 mm.
    Confusing at best.

    Granted, not all tires of the same sizes are identical. Heck, they are not even identical within the same brand! But to have such a slim difference in thickness affect gear ratios? ... I dunno...
    I changed one tooth down of front and one tooth up on rear, and the difference is noticeable, but not that spectacular. So a few millimeters of rubber...