New Xmax 300 !

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by wibble, Sep 16, 2017.

  1. Jack2001

    Jack2001 Adventurer

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    The fact I included the word "mistake" was intentional and the most important part of my post. I hear what you are saying as your needs change about going from a heavy motorcycle to a PCX or a mid size scooter and that makes sense, but in this case the xmax and the B400 are in the same category. When so many buy the xmax and then realize the seat is too high and uncomfortable and non adjustable or the rear suspension is weak or there is no parking brake or they get blown around on the interstate sitting up so high or they don't have enough torque on the interstate to handle high speeds uphill and into the wind or the lighting could be better or the whisker blinkers look ridiculous or the thin windshield isn't sufficient and the B400 can correct all that it can be seen as a MISTAKE not to have considered the B400 before purchasing an xmax. My post was simply to give an unbiased comparison for current AND future buyers considering either bike. I have owned both bikes in the past 12 months and ridden them 6K each so I'm merely reporting my experience. The reason the word mistake is appropriate is because BOTH the xmax and b400 are midsize scooters in the same class and if you don't closely compare the two before purchase it could be a mistake.....it was for me. I never owned a bike as big as the xmax and didn't realize how needed a parking brake was or seat height or the many other things I mention. As a NEW rider in the mid scooter size it is hard to know what you need and want since most dealers don't allow test drives. If you bought your PCX without looking closely into the SMAX first, than buying the PCX could have been a mistake, but going to a smaller 150cc class I would not consider a mistake if that is what your current needs call for. See the difference.

    The old B400 used to be a wider bloated bike focusing on comfort. That is why I said this is not your daddy's Burgman.....the new one is lighter, narrower, faster and sportier.

    Enjoy your ride
  2. Renzo969

    Renzo969 Adventurer

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    Xmax purchase in July 2019 , has 11,115 as of 11/10/2019 I really ride. My commute is 54 miles one way, five days a week. Interstate I-95 any weather. I love my Xmax storage is a plus for me , fastest speed 105 mph "GPS" verified. Rear tire 160/60R14,Yup same thing the burgman 650 rides on. Gas consumption your Burgman "can't" compete. I gas up twice a week with gas left over for my 500+ miles a week back and forth to work. Yes you paid more and have more HP. But like the State trooper told me The "SPEED LIMIT IS 7O mph we allow 5 mph over. Twenty MPH over the speed limit I have the right to arrest you. " Nice scooter I didn't know they were that fast". As for the 6,000 miles that's when I notice the engine was faster. But we each have our own money to purchase what we choose. That's why they made more then one scooter type. Hope your as happy with your burgman as I'm with my Xmax. I'll be buying the 2020 model soon.
  3. dbeth

    dbeth Adventurer

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    I feel this discussion is like the discussion between cars in the same class, but one costs about 40% more (the price difference between the XMax and your Burgman). Of course, a $60,000 car with a little more powerful engine will have more features and comforts than a $42,000 car. That doesn't make the lower priced car in the same class a mistake or worse than the other.

    Also, how many miles did you drive them both?

    To each their own I guess. I enjoy riding my XMax, it serves ME well, and I'm happy you like your ride.
  4. BigBaloo

    BigBaloo Been here awhile

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    Xmax 400 and Burgman 400 are in the same class.
    Suzuki don't have a scooter in the same class as the Xmax 300.
    Burgman 400 only has one brake on the front wheel, but it has twin rotors and calipers meaning double the maintenance.
    But crucially, not double the braking force, which is determined by grip of tyre.
    deepcdiver likes this.
  5. CaptnJim

    CaptnJim Scooter Pilot

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    What most folks will take away as "the most important part of your post" is your obvious bias. When I bought our PCXes (in 2013), the Yamaha Smax didn't exist. The Smax is a nice small scoot - they had the PCX to use as a benchmark. No way I would consider the purchase of EITHER of those fine scoots to be "a mistake." Your limited experience is showing your "Wow factor" with a new, larger ride.

    The most important part of this post is: my wife and I have over 5 decades of riding. We are not NEW riders, and are very capable of narrowing down what we want from a bike. Plus, having the wisdom of experience (both riding and life) to know what to look for. And, to be adult enough to not criticize other opinions that may differ from ours.

    Seriously, I was happy for you that you found "the one." If those two scoots are the only mid-size ones you've ridden (yeah, yeah, we know: 6,000 miles... BFD), it is not much of a challenge to pick between those two (only from your perspective). I guess the other option would be for you to say, "I was a moron for getting this new scoot," but human nature doesn't often allow that. Here's a "duh" moment: if you didn't think the B400 was better for you, you would not have bought it. The key words here: for you. You don't get to make the choice for anyone else. While you are obviously happy with your (6,000 miles - yeah, we know) Burgman experience, it makes ZERO difference to the rest of us. Your use of "a mistake" was quite egocentric on your part. You made "a mistake" - lots of Xmax owners made smart choices.

    For the record, my wife looked at a Burgman 400 and a 200. Everyone gets to have an opinion. Hers was not favorable on either of those two. It doesn't mean you have bad taste by getting one, it means that your opinion is just that: an opinion; and will likely be different from everyone else. Even motorcycle journalists will generally admit their personal bias, and often disagree with each other. It is unfortunate you consider your ownership of the Xmax "a mistake." I guess if you had more experience you would have made the right choice for you first time around. Don't feel bad - that happens to a lot of newbies. Here's another way of taking on life's decisions: every day is the opportunity for a myriad of learning experiences. If you spend money to learn something, consider that "tuition," not "a mistake."

    When looking for a new bike, there are a lot of considerations: comfort, weight/balance, reliability, maintenance, price/value, style, etc, etc. If we all had the same opinions, there would be no need for a variety of models from the different manufacturers. One thing I have learned in over 250,000 miles of riding: don't insult another person's choice. It didn't take me all those years to be smart enough to know better than to get on any internet forum and bad-mouth the center of a topic of discussion (in this case, the Xmax). IF your opinion had any credence, you still come off looking like a troll. And, by telling others of their "mistake", a self-professed know-it-all troll. I tried being jovial with you... until you parroted back at me the "Enjoy your ride." Now, while I wish you no ill will, I don't give a furry rat's rear if you enjoy your ride or not.

    :wave
  6. Bueller

    Bueller Cashin? Super Supporter

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    I wonder how many miles he rode each of those scooters?
  7. bikeridermark

    bikeridermark Long timer Supporter

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    Geez! 6000 miles each! Didn't you read? :lol2
    Actually, he probably has owns neither. Looks like your typical troll to me. Crap,where's that troll emoji when you need it?
  8. Jack2001

    Jack2001 Adventurer

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    Thanks for bringing up gas mileage. The Burgman 400 gets 70 mpg, while the xmax did better in the city on the interstate it was atrocious and I commonly saw 45 mpg to 50 mpg. The larger engine of the Burgman doesn't have to work as hard as tiny one in the xmax which on top of getting lower gas mileage it will shorten the life of the engine. The B400 also has a LARGER fuel tank so if you do a lot of interstate driving you will most likely have to fill up sooner on the xmax. The larger engine in the scooter has nothing to do with top speed and everything to do with being able to accelerate to keep up with traffic and be safe. Going up hills on the interstate into the wind I would be cruising with traffic, but all of a sudden it didn't have enough torque to keep up.....a huge safety risk. If you bothered to read my post and worried less about showing your fanboy status you wouldn't need me to school you. The Yamaha engineers didn't design the xmax 300 to be ridden with that size tire otherwise they would have put it on to begin with. You compromise the safety of your bike doing it, but I'm glad to see you can see the benefit of the B400's wider rear tire than the xmax. Like I said instead of people trying to re engineer the xmax.....just get the B400 and it's already done for you by the experts. If you need some help when buying a new bike in 2020 I'd be glad to take the time to educate you. Please be careful out there on the road with your rogue rear tire.

    PS: I love how in one sentence you are yapping about your 200 mph "gps verified" speed and than lectoring me with your "state trooper story"......lol. Thaks for the laugh.
  9. Jack2001

    Jack2001 Adventurer

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    I've never heard of a bike rider wanting to remove a second front disk brake from their bike, but have seen many times people trying to add a second one. The front brakes account for 80% of your stopping power. When it comes to safety most sane people would not brag about having less stopping power, but here you are......yikes. As far as maintenance your xmax with its single disc will be in the shop twice as often to replace brakes then the B400, because it's doing twice the work of the B400 brakes. And it will actually cost you more in labor because your front tire will need to be removed twice and only once on the B400. There is a reason the higher end bikes including the xmax 400 have dual front disc brakes.....they work better then a single one. I'm not claiming they stop twice as fast as you claim, but even a half second could be the difference between an accident or avoidance. Maybe you use your feet as your backup stopping power and you think it's just as good? It amazes me how some people are allowed to get a motorcycle license.....no wonder there are so many motorcycle fatalities.
  10. Jack2001

    Jack2001 Adventurer

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    I didn't say purchasing either the smax or pcx would be a mistake......what I said is if you didn't thoroughly explore all the bikes in that similar class before purchasing it would be a mistake! Maybe having the floor storage at your feet on the smax would make a huge difference to your usage, so by not exploring the smax (had it been available) would be a mistake if you bought the PCX without checking out the smax first. The trouble is scooters are not popular enough so you can't go to a dealer and see the bikes in person the way you can with cars. Salesman are mostly clueless. Scooters are a niche market and as such people rely on others experience with scooters as they can't experience them in person themselves. Most dealers in my area don't carry the scooters in stock and if they did, they don't allow test drives. My knowledge of recently owning and driving both the 2018 xmax and the B400 for 6,000 miles each is highly valuable to any scooter owner or future buyer. The 6,000 mile figure is extremely important because it clarifies I didn't ride a buddies around the block once and now claim I'm an expert.

    The problem with men is EGO and we hate to ask for directions or god forbid admit we made a mistake. Somehow that would mean we have lost our masculinity.....so I understand the backlash from current xmax owners to the hard cruel facts that their purchase was a mistake. I'm a big enough man to admit buying the xmax was a huge mistake and I should have gotten the B400. Yes you are correct the B400 is best for me, but you are wrong if you think that means the B400 is not the better bike for you. I'm 6 feet tall, 200 pounds with a 32" inseam. By all standards I'm taller and larger than roughly 90% of potential riders. When I find the high xmax seat difficult to stop comfortable flat footed.....that means roughly 90% will find it even harder and the B400 has a seat height that is 2.2 inches shorter. The B400 is right for ME, but that also makes it right for at least 90% of other riders too. When you are on a 2 wheel bike.....having BETTER lighting, suspension, power and brakes is better for EVERYONE. My post is completely unbiased and that is why it's important we get this information out there to the masses. I've yet to find a bike shopper ask a salesman for a bike that has marginal lighting, brakes, suspension and power. No one does that. They want the best or at least one that is ranked higher. If I was saying this color is better than another color, yes that would be subjective, but what I'm saying is objective. I rode both bikes for 6,000 miles and I'm simply making my observations. You being a long time rider loses its credibility in experience because you are riding an xmax. I made the mistake of buying the xmax because I was new. I think the xmax was a great bike in the same way my VCR was great, until I compare it to my DVR. While both the VCR and DVR record shows.....the DVR is far superior to the VCR like the B400 is far superior to the xmax.

    Both suzuki and Yamaha rank as the 2 of the most reliable brands for bikes. The xmax 300 is a heavy 400 pound bike as is the 474 pound suzuki, but since the weight on a scooter is so low.....rolling a 400 or 474 pound bike is difficult to notice. The seat on the B400 is adjustable and it has more legroom than the xmax. The B400 literally destroys the xmax in every area other than price. But since so many of the posts in the forum are about eliminating the hideous whiskers or upgrading the rear suspension or changing to a comfort seat or investing in elevator shoes to be able to reach the ground or buying a wider rear tire......the B400 will come out cheaper in the long run. I've noticed when someone realized they have lost the debate.....the person they were bested by all of a sudden is a "troll". And your "jovial" enjoy your ride was seen as patronizing and thats why it got put back in your face. I find it funny when you say enjoy your ride is jovial, but when I say it back I'm parroting you. It sounds like you may have fallen off your toy xmax one to many times when you couldn't stop in time. No one cares about your furry rats concern. I will simply state the truth and if you are not man enough to handle your mistake so be it.

    Enjoy your ride!
    Alexander B likes this.
  11. * SHAG *

    * SHAG * Unstable

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  12. Jack2001

    Jack2001 Adventurer

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    On the xmax you would need to remove the windshield AND the front end including the light assembly.....which includes many many bolts. If you are out somewhere and find a dead battery at night wouldn't it be much nicer to open your glove box and remove 2 screws to get to your battery, rather than removing the entire front end on the xmax.......yeah me too. And even with the battery access thru the glove box, the B400 still has much more glove box storage. I couldn't even fit a bottle of soda in either of the xmax glove boxes, but it's no problem on the B400. And I do leave all the scheduled maintenance to the dealer as I'm not certified to perform it. Being vulnerable on a 2 wheel bike I have much more faith and confidence in a professionally trained dealer than some wannabee backyard mechanic that thinks he's an expert. What is the old saying....."the cheap always comes out expensive" :)
  13. BigBaloo

    BigBaloo Been here awhile

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    Jack 2001, you don't seem to have a grip on reality.
    Brake maintenance is done on the basis of time or distance.
    So if like me you do your own, it's quicker and easier to strip and clean one caliper than two.
    Tech in a shop no different.
    The fact you don't know front wheel stays in place for front brake maintenance is very revealing.
    Front rear brake balance nowhere near as different on a maxi as it is on a regular bike due to wheel loading and CofG position.
    Here's a wee prediction, motorcycles will start to get bigger and more powerful rear brakes over the next two decades.
    I'll let you have a wee think about why that might happen. Hint: reluctor
  14. Jack2001

    Jack2001 Adventurer

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    This thread is mostly great and many riders and potential ones come here for information and/or to share ideas about the xmax 300. The problem is there are a few washed up old timers who claim they have put a billion miles on a Harley and as such are "experts". They come here to have smoke blown up their rear on what a brilliant choice they made buying an xmax. The 2 main large wheel mid size maxi scooters available for sale in the USA, brand new currently, that have extensive dealer networks is the B400 and the xmax 300. These old timers realize when I enter the fray, having owned and ridden both of these bikes 6,000 miles each over the past 12 months that I'm the expert and they are not as they only have limited knowledge of one of these bikes. That represents a threat to their claim of being an expert. I'm not here to coddle the fragile egos of these people. I state the hard cold facts and give an unbiased assessment of these 2 bikes. I know the vast majority come here for info and do not post and welcome my unbiased viewpoint as the leading expert in the brand new maxi midsize USA scooter market. I plan to keep you all updated on the comparison of these 2 bikes. No worries my friends....I won't be bullied or dissuaded because some old timer or fanboy feels inferior and impotent because they have been told the xmax is an inferior choice to the 2018 and newer Suzuki B400. I'm more than happy to eat their lunch and take them out to the woodshed. When I buy a product online I read not only the positive reviews on a product, but also the negative reviews. I want to have ALL the facts so I can make an informed purchase......good and bad, as I'm sure most of you do too. The resistance you see from the xmax fanboys and old timers trying to argue having less braking power, less lighting, weaker suspension, less torque, a sky high seat and no parking brake on a 400 pound xmax is actually a good thing is simply to justify to themselves they didn't make a mistake. One clown even claimed having to remove the windshield and then the entire front end including the lighting assembly to just access the battery on the xmax is easier then simply opening the glove box on the B400 and removing 2 screws to get to its battery. Absolute nonsense! There were too many falsehoods being stated in here to oversell the xmax 300 and I could no longer keep silent. You can look up online the engine size, suspension differences, seat height specs, parking brake ect......these are OBJECTIVE FACTS and me simply pointing this out is not subjective, no matter how hard the fanboys try to say otherwise. If I said one is better looking or has a better color.....that is subjective. I simply am focusing on the actual bike specs and reporting how they function on the road as I have put 6,000 miles on each over the past 12 months and the only one who has this experience in this forum. I'm available to help anyone interested in either of these 2 bikes and wants to hear the truth. I know I've read many good posts in this thread who are honest and I welcome them to join me to take this thread back from the fanboys who have lost their grip on reality!
  15. Jack2001

    Jack2001 Adventurer

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    I have my maintenance done by factory trained professionals. Brake maintenance is done based actual usage. The fact you think it's done based time or mileage is very revealing! The xmax single front disc is having to do twice the work of my B400 dual disc front brakes, which means your front brakes will need to be serviced twice as often. You will have to do twice the amount of maintenance to get to your brakes each time on your front brakes, as I will on my dual disc brakes that will require less maintenance because the 2 discs are splitting the braking duties. Each time you service the brakes their is labor involved to remove them. Mine will have to be done half as often. So on top of having superior stopping power on the B400, I will spend less time in the shop on front brakes.
    Your 20 year prediction is ridiculous and out of touch with reality. The front brakes do 80% of the stopping. Honda in 2020 is still putting a rear drum brake on their PCX......no disc.....lol. Why.....because the front brakes do 80% of the work to stop your bike. The future is better gas mileage not bigger heavier bikes.
    I looked at the weather app on my iphone and it said no rain for 2 hours......I go out to ride and within 2 minutes it starts to rain. Your 20 year "prediction" is even sillier than environmental wackos claiming they can accurately predict the climate 12 years into the future when they can't even accurately predict the weather in a single city 2 hours in advance......
    I'll let you have a wee think about that......
  16. Anon2018

    Anon2018 Adventurer

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    I hesitated before contributing to this thread as I know that preaching to the converted is always a waste of time but have risen to the bait although Jack2001 by trying so hard to persuade others that his choice is the “right one” only seems to be trying to persuade himself.

    I believe I qualify as one of the “washed up old timers” referred to in the last post nothwithstanding the fact I have never owned a Harley; I have, however, have been riding bikes and scooters for 45 years and probably clocked up 250,000+ miles over that time during which I have always relied on two wheels for transport (pedal cycles included) as I have never owned a car.

    I must confess that when purchasing the Xmax 300 I never even considered the Burgman 400 which I am sure is a perfectly good machine however a simple glance at the specs would have been enough to satisfy me that the Xmax was a better choice for my needs. I owned a Piaggio Beverly 350 for almost 4 years prior to the Xmax and on paper one could argue that the Beverly is a “better” machine i.e. more powerful, faster etc.

    My summary of the pro vs anti arguments are:

    Power – The Burgman may be more powerful but I don’t need the extra power as I have no problem maintaining 80+ mph on my Xmax.

    Weight – this is a killer argument. Coming from a lifetime of riding BMW GSes and other heavyweight bikes my philosophy now is the lighter the bike the better.

    Fuel consumption – again no argument. 20+ imperial mpg better fuel consumption is a no brainer as far as I am concerned. I don’t known how much Jack2001 weighs but I have never seen 45 mpg consumption on my Xmax even when riding 150 miles at speeds averaging 70 mph into a headwind. A glance at Fuelly suggests that the Burgman averages 70 mpg and the Xmax 90 mpg. My Xmax has improved its fuel consumption by about 5 mpg after I hit 6000 miles and I’m now averaging close to 100 mpg.

    Design – this is obviously a purely subjective opinion but to my eyes the Xmax is a far better looker than the Burgman which is staid and frumpy in comparison.

    Comfort – I have no idea how comfortable the Burgman is and concede that I did find the standard seat on the Xmax a little uncomfortable after a couple of hours in the saddle. Fitting the comfort seat has solved this and in any event the standard seat discomfort was only slight and not noticeable at all in normal day to day riding.
    Buspassdodger and Jack2001 like this.
  17. Jack2001

    Jack2001 Adventurer

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    Anon, I appreciate your reply and you laying out your reasoning like an adult with minimal snark. My goal was simply to open others eyes to not overlook the 2018 and newer B400, as you did. I can say that reading a bikes specs does not give one a completely accurate picture of living with a bike day to day. My unique perspective of recently owning and driving the B400 and xmax for a significant amount of miles can fill in the complete picture. I'm 6 feet tall and weigh 200 pounds with a 32" inseam for reference. The absolute best mileage I saw on the xmax was the dreadful break in period when I was babying it and saw 85 mpg. I live in a very hilly and windy area, and with 70% interstate driving I would regularly see my mileage drop to 45 mpg-50 mpg doing 85-90 mph on the odometer which I think translated to 77-82 mph GPS. I would also not be able to hold those speeds going up hills into the wind. The xmax at those speeds had a lot of vibration. I worried about engine longevity taxing the small engine. The B400 with its extra 107 cc's is not necessarily faster than the xmax, but it has more torque and is able to hold those same speeds uphill into the wind while having less vibration. The bigger B400 engine delivers better mpg number on the interstate and the engine doesn't have to work as hard which should bode well for longevity. The specs don't tell you these things.

    Your age would suggest you would benefit from the already comfortable B400 seat which added an additional inch of padding starting in 2018. No need to spend $400-$500 on a comfort seat. The B400 has a 3 position adjustment on the lumbar pad or can be removed taking out 2 screws and you can replace it with a full backrest from bestbackrests.com. The updated Burgman seat with the backrest is like sitting in your lazy boy recliner at home! I think especially for an older rider the seat and backrest would blow you away. And the 2.2" lower seat height makes flat footed stops a breeze (no more tippy toe stops) and the lower center of gravity of the B400 aids with performance and handling. Again things the "specs" won't tell you.

    The B400 is actually half an inch narrower than the xmax and feels like a smaller or same size bike. I have a one car garage so it's a tight squeeze parking both my car and bike in there together and the half an inch narrower bike and no floppy whisker blinkers hanging out there to be snapped off is a big plus. Over 99.9% of the time on your bike you are riding it and not pushing it. Scooters hold their weight so low that I couldn't tell a difference between the xmax and B400 75 pounds as the additional weight was a big concern to me also. You are not actually lifting 75 additional pounds, but simply rolling the bike. The slight additional weight and lower seat height aided greatly in reducing getting pushed around on a windy interstate. I didn't realize how valuable a parking brake is on a 400 pound plus bike. Stopping at a red light on a hill and wanting to get a drink or something else from the glove box was impossible without a parking brake on the xmax. Or parking a 400+ pound bike on any type of grade was always worrisome on the xmax. Again things not told to you in the "specs", but you learn with day to day use.

    My overall impression was the xmax 300 was a great city bike, but not for the interstate unless you want to live in the slow lane due to its lack of torque and don't mind the "I'm about to get blown over feeling" when it was windy. The Suzuki B400 is the best all around do everything bike. It's not too big to be agile in the city (half and inch narrower than the xmax), but beefy enough to handle the interstate competently. I did look at the BV350 and saw it was highly regarded by owners, but it lacked large underseat storage, had weak single halogen lighting, unimpressive suspension, I believe showed the speedometer in kilometers in the dominant position, had very limited dealership support in my area and I didn't find it comfortable in terms like I felt like I was sitting on the bike rather than in it. I did ride one and was impressed with the motor. Design is one of the subjective categories. The redesigned B400 with the built in blinkers has a much cleaner look and could easily be mistaken as a sport bike. I totally agree the xmax 300 look in Europe is great when I saw it online, but was disappointed in seeing the american version in person with the added blinker whiskers.
    bluemoon1 likes this.
  18. Renzo969

    Renzo969 Adventurer

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    Jack Please help with my next scooter. I need a scooter with under seat storage enough to carry,A tire compressor,Rain suit, rain boots, jacket , 3 pair of glove(weather condition always changing) and lunch box. I don't like bringing my helmet inside so I need that to be stored under the seat(in case it rains).I don't own a car or truck so I need something that I can stop by walmart on my way home and pick up a few items. Oh yeah for thanksgiving my job gives out frozen honey baked hams. I don't want that extra storage compartment that goes on the back because I don't like that look. I need something with very good gas mileage. I travel a minimum of 2000 miles a month .(that just the commute to and from work) and is highway capable. I need a scooter with easy to do maintenance. I like to do my own maintenance. You know the routine maintenance, Oil, oil filter,gear oil,spark plug, V belt, valve adjustment. Also I change my own tires I need that to be simple to do, you know the rear tire is the one that need to be replaced the most (riding 2000 miles a month). My spending limit $8,000 tops, hint,hint I ride a scooter.Jack2001 what Scooter do you suggest that I get That will cover all my needs??
  19. DandM

    DandM Long timer

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    There are specific threads here concerning the Burgman 400.
    There are specific threads here concerning the Smax 155.
    There are specific threads here concerning the ________ ...

    This thread is titled Xmax 300.
    deepcdiver and Moat like this.
  20. dirtmarine

    dirtmarine Been here awhile

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    Thanks DandM, I can't wait to buy my 2020 XMAX. I lot of love here for them and I've learned a lot. Of course I've looked at the others and I come back to this one. They all have their fans for a million reasons.
    DandM likes this.