No love for electric motorcycles?

Discussion in 'Electric Motorcycles' started by emtkopan, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. guzzibloke

    guzzibloke Been here awhile

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    It's a nice idea but I fail to see how electric vehicles are the solution to the environmental impact of modern day traffic.
    I can't see the future of it.
    Imagine billions of vehicles plugging in every day.
    Where does that power come from.
    #21
  2. Ray R

    Ray R Long timer Supporter

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    In my area, the power comes from the generators spun by the rivers, or by the wind in the hills, or the solar panels in the fields.
    #22
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  3. guzzibloke

    guzzibloke Been here awhile

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    What you'll find is that power generated in such a way, is supplemental.
    It is most certainly not providing all the necessary electricity to power everything in your area, unless you live in the wilderness somewhere.
    #23
  4. Lutz

    Lutz Fuzzy Rabbit

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    And it's not just "where does that power come from"...it's also," how does it get there?"

    You're right. Electric vehicles aren't a canned solution for environmental impacts on a global scale. Though they could be a major help for localized environmental problems, i.e. urban smog. Electric vehicles have and will have plenty of environmental baggage of their own - fossil fuels and ore mining and processing are integral to electric vehicles just as much or more than conventional vehicles. There's no free lunch, and wannabe "environmentalists" really need to understand this (both the big picture and the minutiae).

    Anyway, environmental issues aside, electric vehicles do have definite pros and cons, and should be selected or not selected based on their merits as a vehicle. For some people and places, they are and will be a fantastic fit. In the long term, they are certainly viable, but yes it's hard to see them ever being "it."

    You're forgetting a few other very important sources. https://www.oregon.gov/energy/pages/oregons_electric_power_mix.aspx
    [​IMG]

    Nationally, hydro power siting is already maxed out in practical terms, and hydro generation is much more cyclical than you may be aware of. There is plenty of room for growth of wind and solar...but they also take up a lot of room and resources to build, and expansion of these requires additional grid expansion and improvement (which uses additional space, and consumes additional resources). And all the while they remain intermittent, and absolutely require baseload and backup generation....aka fossil fuels and nuclear. All well and good, but no free lunch.
    #24
  5. guzzibloke

    guzzibloke Been here awhile

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    There is also the rather inconvenient matter of disposing of the batteries when they have expired.
    I was reading recently that they can only be disposed of in landfill sites. and will subsequently take thousands of years to degrade to a safe level.
    The way I see it, we are removing the problem from the atmosphere, and sweeping it under the carpet, LITERALLY.
    #25
  6. Ray R

    Ray R Long timer Supporter

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    In my area, I have the option of using only renewable energy (hydro, thermal, wind, etc), and I use it.

    I test rode a Zero SR a couple years ago. It's the real deal. I'd own one if they fit my freakishly tall frame better. Yeah, the new DSR is taller, but not in the seat-to-peg measurement. Until then, I have my e-bike that gets me around just fine. (and yeah, a bunch of motorcycles too)
    #26
  7. AllSeasonRider

    AllSeasonRider Wandering, maybe a little lost...

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    Depends where you live...
    [​IMG]
    What map tells you is that in New York State, the average gas-powered vehicle would need to get over 135mpg in order to be as clean to operate over it's lifetime as the average electric vehicle. Breaking that limit is easier in some areas than other - my Volkswagen GTI would be just as clean as electric if I live in Kansas, for example.
    #27
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  8. Lutz

    Lutz Fuzzy Rabbit

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    That's good and commendable. Utilities in my area offer similar programs, as throughout the country I'm sure.
    But just to be clear, unless you are off the grid or on some kind of disconnected mini-grid, you really aren't using strictly renewables - you're only paying for strictly renewables.
    #28
  9. sleeping143

    sleeping143 Adventurer

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    The technology to recycle the batteries exists for any chemistry you're likely to see in a vehicle, but the infrastructure might well leave you with no clear path to recycle one.

    I got to experience the pain of trying to find somewhere to send a good battery for a totaled Prius late last year. Toyota didn't want it, they said they would only take it as a core deposit on a new battery for replacement (Seriously? Come on, guys). I couldn't get a response from any third-party Prius battery suppliers. The scrapyard said they'd take it with the car, but they'd only pay me for the car itself (body panels, stereo, etc) because they said there's not much of a market for used Prius batteries. Ultimately I sold the whole car to a guy who did hybrid salvage rebuilds, who said he'd absolutely get use out of the battery.

    I think it's fair to say that, if you really want to recycle a large rechargeable battery, the experience will depend a lot on the manufacturer and your situation. And while there won't ever be a situation where landfill is your only option... it could be your only reasonable option without jumping through a lot of hoops.
    #29
  10. REALGRAVEROBBER

    REALGRAVEROBBER LEAVING GRAVES EMPTY

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    I think the Ocelot trials motorcycles made for children look great. A guy who sells them in Hardin, Montana explained an advantage, that kids can use them in suburbs in their yards given that they make no noise. SMART.

    Getting kids out of the house, away from computer screens and playing with motorcycles is a great thing.

    Otherwise, the only types I've seen are teh 'Zero' motorcycles that cost about $8,000 which is stuipidly prohibitive to people taking the chance. Also the 'boss' of the dealership inadvertently advertises that they break a lot. He broke a drive belt in the parking lot showing how great they are. I hope it works, and maybe one of the big four will roll one out that really is impressive. I hope that happens.
    #30
  11. SportsterTom

    SportsterTom Been here awhile

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    For my hobby vehicles it's all about the beautiful exhaust music. Any kind of electric vehicle is a appliance. If that's what you want, great but give me internal combustion NOISE.
    #31
  12. Weldman

    Weldman Long timer

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    I greatly enjoy the shifting, the vibration, and the sound of both my Sportster and my DR650. It's a great part of the riding experience for me. That said, I think that rolling on some seamless, whisper-quiet power would just be a surreal experience. I think I'd really like that too. If they become reasonably priced in my lifetime I'll buy one.
    #32
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  13. wheelbender6

    wheelbender6 Been here awhile

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    Electric motorcycles don't cost as much as the European exotics. Unfortunately, they don't elicit the same amount of passion. You will see more ebike buzz when we get a few moRe battery breakthroughs.
    #33
  14. sfrider300

    sfrider300 Been here awhile

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    I rode a Brammo, first an Enertia then an Empulse, for 5+ years as a daily commuter. What gets left out of these conversations is that, for commuting and errand-running, and electric bike can actually be a better tool for the job. This is difficult to appreciate until you've done it. So, just like folks have a bike for touring, another for dirt, another for the track, there's nothing strange about having a bike just for commuting because it happens to excel in that role.

    I sold my Empulse because my commute changed, now I take a passenger ferry. That brings up another point, because the guy who bought mine got a crazy good deal because after 3+ years and 20,000 miles, the batteries hadn't lost any noticeable capacity.
    #34
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  15. B_C_Ries

    B_C_Ries Long timer

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    Molten Salt solar looks pretty impressive:http: //www.solarreserve.com/en/technology/molten-salt-energy-storage
    #35
  16. Mat

    Mat Long timer Supporter

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    They have a smaller carbon footprint than ICE, even if powered 100% by coal power plants. That is old news and gets more pronounced with every new generation. Where I live, electricity comes 99%+ from renewable or nuclear power.
    Electrons are electrons. If you pay for hydro, your money doesn't go to a coal plant (or shouldn't). Not that hydro is so great either, but that is another topic. These programs do exactly what they promise, except for a few people who believe nuclear power brings radiation to their wall outlets.

    That is only a problem if your infrastructure isn't really all so up to date with waste treatment and recycling. You can reuse most of a Li-Ion battery if the infrastructure is there. Not inconvenient at all really.

    As for myself, I am a glass half full kind of guy, I would love to get rid of most of the maintenance, cost and noise from ICE motorbikes. More torque, less weight and less noise. Motocross tracks in the middle of a residential area.

    This:

    [​IMG]

    #36
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  17. CA Stu

    CA Stu Peace and love

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    I rode the Zero SR. My Triumph dealer sells them and loaned me one while I was having my Tiger serviced.
    It is definitely a road warrior, it damn near pulled my arms off. :lol3

    "With more torque than most 1000cc sport bikes, the Zero SR pulls hard off the lineā€¦and just keeps pulling. Launching from 0-60 mph in 3.3 seconds en route to a top speed over 100 mph, the Zero SR offers spirited riders an edge in competitive riding."

    http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-s/sr.php
    #37
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  18. Prototype4342

    Prototype4342 Long timer

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    What's the estimated overall battery life? I.e. at how many hours will the battery need to be replaced?
    #38
  19. Rectaltronics

    Rectaltronics Barned

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    I can't help thinking that H-D marketing an electric is going to be a far bigger FAIL than their relationship with Buell. Electric motors don't fit The Lifestyle that H-D sells, and there won't be any obscenely loud pipes to save their customers' lives (and announce to their captive audiences that their incredible coolness is about to ride by).

    EDIT: And if H-D's dealer network treats the electrics the same way they treated Buell's bikes, the whole thing is gonna be devastatingly still-born. But with a little luck they can sell the rights to China or Korea and still get back some of their investment.

    I love the idea of an electric bike.

    If only I could afford to buy, insure and store a bike that I would use only for commuting. Because the range is really an impediment for me on weekends.

    So as a one-bike guy, the charge time for an electric is a bit of a show-stopper, and so is the lack of infrastructure. No way to charge it at work and at home, nobody will be pleased with me running a 250' extension cord from my window and I've already seen how dick-headed the building management is about the outlets in the garage... Once I hooked up a battery tender to charge a dead battery and when I came back four hours later it was un-plugged.
    #39
  20. Rectaltronics

    Rectaltronics Barned

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    The idea is to recycle the batteries, not dispose of them.
    #40
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