No love for electric motorcycles?

Should maybe try one before such conviction? EVs are nothing like a golf cart and Harley's should be out shortly, so I'm sure you'd be able to demo one as a HOG.

Roger that sir. I stand corrected.

I do ride a Harley, and have had one most of my life. But it has nothing to do with the brand name. I admit I do like the look, but that's not really it either. I ride Harleys because of the feel and sound. Every Harley (and some Japanese cruisers) I've had have had an aftermarket exhaust. But only a Harley has that certain feel and sound that makes riding such a pleasure. I also ride only carbureted bikes. A good part of my love for motorcycles and riding comes from the internal combustion engine. I built my first engine, a small block Chevy, at age 14, and it ran perfectly, and for many years. I have also been a drag racer all my life (cars) and my main attraction to that goes far beyond competition or going fast. I love the feel, sound, and smells that go with it. I have never liked jet powered dragsters, because they don't have any of that, and battery powered would have the same problem. No matter how fast they go, without the sensations that go with internal combustion powered cars, it would be no fun at all.

I have a number of bikes that I have accumulated over the years and I have to admit: my favorite ride summer evenings around town is my Empulse TT (Brammo) which is such a rush for the power without the noise! It also encourages a lot of smiles when you ride by people who have the WTF reaction until they realize....the start of something many of us will eventually admire after we have ridden one!

I have a Zero FX and a KTM 1290. And love both - each for their very diff. characteristics and abilities.


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If you test ride a Zero SR I think you'll change your mind, at least in terms of how much fun it is to ride.

Just over a century ago when electric, steam and gas cars were all available, they all did well in their niches. In fact steam was looking pretty damn attractive. The flash boiler made long startup times disappear, and if the valve box was set up correctly they were almost silent. Since electrics at the time were relatively low power, steam cars were also the torque kings.

So why did ICE win out? Some will say it was the electric starter (which eliminated the need for hand cranking), but there are plenty of historians who will disagree with that strongly. Seems to me more likely that the common man preferred the noise of the ICE.

How might a man know he has a tiger by the tail if the tiger does not roar?

It certainly wasn't any rational reason. I understand how many here think they 'will never' go electric. I understand because I thought the same thing. I was sufficiently devoted to ICE to become a race mechanic at the championship level. I get it. But I also recognize superior technology, and it helps that I'm less irrational than most.

I ended up building my own electric car. Now I drive an OEM EV. An EM is in my near future. All my powered yard tools are now electric, including the tractor. There's simply no reason I can see to go back to the dark ages. It's not just what you lose of the ICE - it's what you gain with electric power.

Never say never.

Why do you claim that the near-ubiquitous adoption of gasoline powered vehicles was not rational? Gas powered ICEs were already the norm before widespread use of electric starters so that argument is a non-starter. ICE powered autos were in widespread use long before electricity was available in many homes. The infrastructure simply was not there to support EVs in most of the world. I can't imagine a farmer in rural Kansas in the teens buying an electric car and steam died out almost entirely except legacy applications by the mid 20th century clearly demonstrating it's lack of effectiveness.

I agree 100%.

I think steam would still be utilized today if we had today's electronics back in the steam days. With modern controls, steam could be as efficient, if not more efficient, than electric.

Not true for steam. Nuclear power plants are steam applications, they just use radioactive material to heat the water. Steam is asking and well in the 21st century .

ICE powered things tend "charge" a bit faster and there battery can easely hold 400kwh. My nissan leaf with a 400kwh battery would be stupid great. 13kwh pr 100km should be around...a lot.

OK, since the context of a post on a motorcycle thread apparently was not obvious, I was referring to transportation devices.

There wasn't any infrastructure for gasoline either in the early days. You had to buy it in gallon cans from the druggist or general store. Gas stations came later, and way later for that farmer in Kansas.

Electrics died out because the batteries of the time gave short range suitable only for in-town use, and their weight and skinny tires made the cars a handful in mud. Which was everywhere, since pavement wasn't. (It has been argued that Edison could have taken his nickel iron battery development a bit farther and come up with the nickel metal hydride chemistry. Wouldn't THAT have changed things....)

That farmer didn't have any problem getting coal though, which was fine for some steam cars. As things advanced and gasoline became more available, steam cars could run on it too. Or kerosene, or a mixture of the two. Still not finding a rational reason for ICE beating steam.

By the time it was clear ICE had won, it could still be fairly cantankerous at times. Steam was pretty refined and getting better. Read up on the Doble.

Ok . Got it. I was thinking generally.

And ICE best steam because of warmup times, lighting the boiler flame and keeping the water from freezing in the winter. Oh, and explosions! Due to overpressure. With today's technology, none of these are issues .

I made a study of A.Doble a few years back. Now that was a true visionary.I'm still of the opinion steam could be a viable alternative to the ICE.

steam engine... best horn ever

. The Doble brothers were engineering geniuses, just not good business men. They set a standard that we have trouble meeting today .

I'm surprised that there aren't more europeans diving into the electric offroad segment. It is generally much less acceptable here to go riding in the forest and making noise, so a near-silent electric bike would allow you much more freedom than a petrol powered alternative :) I will be adding a KTM Freeride E to my collection this year, should make for some fantastic trail riding fun around where I live, or even elsewhere if I bring it on my truck.

Sure, range could always be better, but estimates of three hours of trail riding on one charge should be fun enough for a fun half day of riding :)

Im looking at Alta but looks like Harley Davidson is going to kill it.

I would happily have paid for the performance and range of the Alta, but unfortunately you can't get them in Europe so the KTM is my only option. Looks like it will suit my needs fairly well though, light weight, good for practicing various enduro skills, and a good enough range for some forest trail riding locally.