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Discussion in 'Americas' started by 5 speed, Dec 18, 2013.
That's a MOOSE not a bear.
Holy fuck! Did that moose really need to be shot? The guy with the snow machine totally fucked up. He was in such a hurry he couldn't wait for the moose to move off the track and he really needed to keep advancing up on it? The snow machine was the aggressor and the moose reacted.
Interesting how many have chimed in with zero back country experience in Montana, especially those who claim a hand gun is their weapon of choice for bear defense. Jacoba331 do you have any actual bear experience? If you think the guy on the snow machine was in the right, you have no business carrying a gun in the back country.
Never seizes to amaze me at how offended and upset people on ADV get with the topic of firearms. Both sporting and for defense alike.
Nah bro that's a bear. New breed. Indestructible unless u have SHOT PLACEMENT AND TRAINING. Lol
The LOL is you and your lack of bear experience and your nieve perception about bears.
Your right. Stupid to carry in Montana. But it was a good idea for my uncle in a Idaho. When he was charged by 3 black bears he killed one with one shot from his 30-30 and killed the other two with his puny .22 mag revolver. My dad was there as witness.
So remember, stupid in Montana. Smart in Idaho.
So tell me about the time you were actually attacked by bears again? No, not the time you bumped into one on the trail, that time you were attacked.
By the way my point has nothing to do with the video. Your response was a little ignorant if I might add. Have you ever skinned a moose and a bear? I have. Not a whole lot of difference in hide thickness. Shouldn't be too much difference in penetration.
Growing up on Idaho my family and I have had numerous close encounters with black bears. My experience is that its much more comforting to have a method of defense at hand should you actually need to go there.
Don't get me wrong, I have no interest in convincing you or anyone to arm themselves. No more than I would criticize you for not riding ATGATT. I could care less if you wanted to ride naked.
It's amusing if not irritating when people who weren't ever there, mock those who were.
Idk what I did wrong- just shared my motorcycle backcountry gun of choice and a little sarcasm (that obviously didn't translate well). Didn't mean to offend anyone or sound "ignorant" for posting what works for me. That video is crazy by the way- Just trying to share interesting and semi relevant content.
Really not trying to fan the flames here, but that moose video really saddened me. Strong Bad, I agree that the snow machine driver did show aggression and the moose simply reacted.
The law of the jungle does not leave room to "reason" with an opponent, and the moose acting under instincts of such a law did not respect nor care that the trail was the ONLY way (in the mind of the rider) for the snow machine to pass. was that snow machime rider on his way to perform a life saving surgery or to go save a bus load of orohans from going over a cliff or something? what is time to a moose? With a clear field up and to the right, why backing up and going around was not an option is beyond me.
Even more sad is the lack of a coup de grâce shot for the poor moose as it was then unceremoniously run over. when you enter the forest or the ocean, you must accept some risk being mostly pink without sharp teeth, claws or venom that you are entering the food chain (and no longer on top).
That snow machine rider had a very precious second chance to get away (likely not to be granted to you by a grizzly) and in so doing to avoid taking life, but he was lacking wisdom, impatient and forced the reaction. I can only hope that the cosmos granted some reciprocity via the local game warden. If that was self defense, then I do not understand the topic.
This behavior gives sportsman a bad name. When you are a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. Wish that I had not seen that video's display of jackassery.
I agree- that guy had every opportunity to avoid the moose- but he kept charging. Unfortunate for sure. My intentions were not to disturb.
Sorry OP if I hijacked this. I'll shut my mouth now.
No, a moose and a brown or grizzly are NOT the same and trying HEAD ON to shoot the heart and lungs would be very different. Look at what it would take to get to the heart in this illustration when head-on.
The grossly illegal shooting of the moose in the video is from the side - with time for follow shots. Once a bear has something like protecting cubs in mind or goes into a rage, it isn't going to back off like the moose did. And the discussion has been about being in the range of big bears, where blackies are pip-squeeks.
But it is your life, so feel free to take what you want to protect yourself.
So a stupid person from Montana is a smart person in Idaho?
I'm kidding, so relax and don't get all butt hurt. For some reason people in southern Montana have a special disdain for Idahoans who are commonly referred to as "Potato Heads". But having lived and worked in both states I usually get along with people from both.
FYI, I got my Geology degree from Idaho State and spent many field seasons doing geologic mapping in the back country hiking though out Idaho, Wyoming, & Montana. I have owned property adjacent to the Anaconda- Pintler Wilderness in Montana for the last 25 years. I don't hunt bear and I don't hunt cats, pretty much anything else could end up on my dinner table.
I suppose I should have used some emoji that denotes sarcasm but I thought it was obvious. I'm not butthurt. I just thought your comment ( "especially those who claim a hand gun is their weapon of choice for bear defense. Jacoba331 do you have any actual bear experience?") was condescending to anyone deciding to arm them self. So I replied as someone who actually does have bear experience as well as family with puny handgun vs bear attack experiences.
I think most woodsmen would argue that bears are mostly a non issue. Even when I had a couple cubs wrestling 4 feet from me in my sleeping bag near Mammoth last year I wasn't too worried. Momma was about 20 feet away and while she could have clearly killed me if she wanted to, I did feel better about having the Glock .40 in hand to at least make her regret it.
I shot one once for the purpose of dining on his fine flesh, only to discover that folks who rave about the flavor are all liars. I gave all the meat away to everyone who had ever offended me from 1st grade forward.
THIS from todays news just about 100 yards from where I used to live in Summit County, since the topic of moose came up.
Come to think of it, I've had many more angry moose encounters than bears. I've been charged and run off the trail several times. Once a huge bull stopped our pickup on the forest service road and wouldn't let us pass for 20 minutes. Kept bluff charging at the truck. Pulling a camper we couldn't really back up very well.
I totally agree that for the most part in the lower 48 brown bears are a non-issue. I've only had encounters (no attacks) and my experience with the big brown guys in Montana always had them running the other way when they discovered I was in the area. I also believe that grizzlies up in Alaska and the Yukon are not nearly as shy as they are in the lower 48, but that is a different discussion entirely.
There is always going be a divide in the hand gun vs. bear debate. What bothers me is how many with zero experience feel so strongly about their choice. I guess it's like politics these days, there is zero tolerance for opposing points of view.
The OP was wondering about hand guns while in Montana Grizzly country. The OP didn't own a hand gun at the time of starting the thread. Do you think this person would be proficient enough to be able to properly handle a bear encounter, or what do you think the odds are that he would react like the guy on the snow machine with the moose?
I agree, my one and only Grizzly encounter was also in MT and I was in my Explorer and she running like a bat out of hell away from me. But I suspect a quick google search will reveal enough grizzly attacks in Montana to give one pause to think about the potential.
Your question : would he be proficient enough? would he act like our infamous moose murderer?
A) who's to say. Should we assume he hasn't the brains to accept the responsibility that comes with gun ownership? Of course not. If my children when they were small could grasp a few simple rules and live safely ever after, then I think 99+% of adults can too.
B) I suggest that since the OP is considering this... he go right out and buy his favorite bear killing pistol and a full case of ammo for it. Learn to shoot. Make new friends at the range. Have a blast. Shoot some more. Load it, shoot it, load it, shoot it --- a zillion times. Show your targets to the wife, the boys at the poker table, your friends at work. Go volunteer at your range. Learn more about shooting.
Why? Because i t i s f u n !!
And if it turns out he doesn't like it ? Sell the sh*t and say 'been there, done that' And for the rest of his life he'll know theres nothing to be afraid of with firearms. They do exactly what you tell them to do.
Define "bear experience". So
Only people who have had a standoff with a charging grizz have a right to an opinion about what they think works best for peace of mind (firearm choice). Of the hundreds of nights I have spent in in bear country- I am most comfortable and confident with my 10mm (I'm pathetically inaccurate with my double action .44 and 12 ga. Is too cumbersome on the bike). Not arguing just stating what works for me and what I think could give the OP peace of mind when camping in the woods.
Guns are cool just like bikes- we can all agree on that at least... right?
OP- Sorry for not shutting up when I said I would! Ha
Fascinating! No grizzlies in Australia...just killer roos and wombats...
I love oil threads.....
After reading through all this, it does amaze me how on the Lewis and Clark expedition they were able to kill several grizzlies with a 30 cal. black powder rifle. Of course, it sometimes just pissed them off. I've never had a close encounter with a bear, but did have a moose amble along a dirt road in front of me a few weeks ago. I'm glad it didn't turn on me like the snow machine guy. I never thought about pulling my pistol, so I guess it would have stomped me into the ground.
For those interested in the above subject, there is a book titled "Lewis and Clark Among the Grizzlies: Legend and Legacy in the American West" by Paul Schullery. He read through the entire journals and excerpted all the grizzly bear encounters. I enjoyed the book almost as much as this thread. I think "which gun should I carry in bear country?" threads now rival 'which oil,' 'which chain lube,' 'which state has the best bbq' and 'political threads' for sheer entertainment value.
Which oil is best in bear country?