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Discussion in 'Canada' started by ZZR_Ron, Nov 20, 2006.

  1. jdrocks

    jdrocks Gravel Runner

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    in all this talk about roads north of Armstrong, i'm surprised that no one has mentioned Marten Falls...that would be a game changer.
  2. Drif10

    Drif10 Accredited Jackass

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    Are they Canadian? :D
  3. sturgeon

    sturgeon Long timer

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    I’ve never seen a sign indicating a green zone/restricted area. Doesn’t mean there isn’t one hidden somewhere. I have seen a sign pointing out the difference between a woodland caribou and a moose. You know, just in case :lol3

    And yes, I think they’re mostly west of Superior.
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  4. John F

    John F Been here awhile

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    All-weather gravel road access to Marten Falls is part of the plan for the Ring of Fire. Construction of the roads is supposed to start this year and the link to the Webequie area is supposed to be completed by 2025. Currently the gravel ends up Painter Lake road a little past the Kapikotongwa River, and the road is restricted at the Kapikotongwa River bridge.

    I'm still waiting for word from a real live person regarding the road restrictions up there. The maps at the following link indicate that restriction as well as the Ogoki Road at the Ogoki River (45 miles short of the Witchwood River bridge you showed.) I refuse to believe those restrictions are real and absolute until I hear from a real person. You said there was no traffic on the Ogoki Road when you rode to the Witchwood River 12 years ago (how far beyond it did you get?). The link below shows significant logging plans beyond that bridge now, along with the construction of 28 km of new road. I fear there are real restrictions up that way now due to the logging.

    https://www.efmp.lrc.gov.on.ca/eFMP/home.do

    Those roads taunt me. It's exceedingly cruel to dangle them in front of my face via Google Maps and not let me ride them.
  5. jdrocks

    jdrocks Gravel Runner

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    the Marten Falls road discussion happened well after the the original Ring of Fire road system planning. that band on the Albany felt left out of the all-weather road business, and their location had much to do with it. that stretch of new road requires a bridge at the Albany River, that's not a creek, it's a major river subject to ice flows and high water events that nearly double it's size. that's not a million dollar bridge, that's a 10 or 20 million buck bridge, maybe more. all the band settlements on or near the Albany have had major issues with 20th century problems. the Albany has been part of a trade route network for 6-7,000 years, long before the Euro presence. there's a historical site on Petawanga that has been in continuous use for that entire time period, and is still in use today.

    anyone that does eventually get out there would be crazy not to bring fishing gear. pickerel fillets over the campfire, none better.
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  6. canuckAME

    canuckAME Been here awhile

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    The pipeline on this map can be accessed and ridden east. It crosses the Spruce River Road (Hwy 527) approximately 48 miles north of Thunder Bay. You have to go up the Dog River Road off Hwy 17 to access it.
    There are logging roads and bridges to get to it.
    Should be passable as long as it's not a real wet year. I've ridden it each direction.
    Not much snow yet so things should dry out quickly this year.
    [​IMG]
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  7. John F

    John F Been here awhile

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    Interesting. I thought construction was supposed to start this year and be completed in 2025. Do you know what route has been settled on? I see two potential routes on the web, but it isn't clear which has been settled on, or even if a final route has been decided. (You'd think a final route has been decided if they're starting construction this year. Maybe I have that wrong...)

    Route via Aroland:
    https://www.on-sitemag.com/roads/on...egion/1003967234/attachment/ring-of-fire-map/

    Route via Pickle Lake (with a rail link to Aroland):
    http://kwgresources.com/ring-of-fire-engineering-east-west-alternate-all-season-road-system/

    Would be pretty cool if they did both. It'd make for an epic route over the top of Lake Nipigon...

    What are the fishing restrictions up there for non First Nations people? In Quebec above the 52nd parallel you need a First Nations guide to fish legally.
  8. John F

    John F Been here awhile

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    Wow. Looking at Google Street View where it crosses 527, the right of way looks like it's a couple hundred feet wide. My maps in Basecamp indicate it's crossed a lot by logging roads. How are the river crossings along the way? Is it basically just another forest road, but with a pipeline buried underneath?

    The more research I do on the roads over the top of Lake Nipigon, the more disillusioned I get. Not only does a through-ride look unlikely, there seem to be a lot of travel restrictions (Public Lands Act, non First Nations, active logging, etc.) We may still do an out-n-back NE of Armstrong, but maybe we'll spend more time west of there after we hit Weagamow.

    There seems to be a railroad grade at the west end of that map above (labeled "BPF Private" on the map). It looks like it goes up through Graham. What do you know about that? Rideable? Restricted? Permit required?
  9. jdrocks

    jdrocks Gravel Runner

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    Ontario is 86% Crown land, with most of the private land being in the southeast. if not in the southeast, or not within a city limit, you're probably on Crown land. read the non resident regulations carefully, intentionally or not, the authors left a loophole that is worth looking into if you plan on camping many nights up there.

    as far as Marten Falls, that road is in at least Phase 2 planning, not as far along as the rest of the road. the final route is still being discussed.

    the only fishing license i ever had was the Ontario non-resident. you do have the option of a regular or conservation license.
  10. DrydenRider

    DrydenRider Sun Seeker

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    Resident of Canada licence
    https://www.ontario.ca/page/fishing-licence-canadian-residents

    Non resident of Canada
    https://www.ontario.ca/page/fishing-licence-non-residents-canada

    Yes you can buy conservation or regular sort fishing licence. catch and possesion limits vary by licence type and location fished.
    https://www.ontario.ca/page/fishing-licence-fees-canadian-residents
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  11. John F

    John F Been here awhile

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    How often have non-resident riders here been approached by a conservation officer asking to see their camping permit? I realize camping without one is a risk, but honestly, in forty years of wild camping all over the US and Canada I've only been caught twice -- once by another rider looking for a place to camp and once by a logger seeing if the cut had dried up enough to get equipment in to haul the logs out (he was very apologetic for waking me). I've even camped off the grid in US national parks, state & county parks closed for the season, city parks, and even in empty lots in new housing subdivisions with new homes on either side (you get desperate sometimes when you're caught in suburban areas when the sun is setting and you're too cheap to spring for even a cheap motel...). If it isn't illegal to ride the areas, as long as you're not seen going into a spot or coming out, and the spot you choose is located so nobody will trip across you when you have all your stuff unpacked, you're probably OK. Wild camping is a sport. Worst I've encountered is when I've bought a nice steak to cook for dinner and wind up in a spot where I'm uncomfortable building even a small fire for fear of attracting attention.

    Over the years I've camped at least a dozen times crown land in Ontario and I never even knew about this permit requirement before a couple months ago. And what's the loophole? I don't see it.
  12. jdrocks

    jdrocks Gravel Runner

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    rider's choice on the Crown land permit.
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  13. gpfan

    gpfan a mari usque ad mare

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    It's Canada. Just park your arse where you want. We don't care. On the one in a million chance an MNR guy sees you, and gets stroppy, just tell him the (sort of) truth:

    "Sorry, buddy! I didn't know we needed a special permit. Where may I purchase one of those? And, by the by, do you have an e-mail or phone number to which I may send a photo of my permit? I don't want you thinking all Americans are arseholes".

    Really, if one must go this far, it absolutely seals it for the next guy! All any of them care about, is one's fire, or littering. No fires when that needle is in the red, and don't throw plastic shit around.

    Heck, PM me before your trip, and I'll give you my number. Then just say: "Here's my Ontario buddy. He said it was okay".

    Also, always use 'buddy'.
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  14. DrydenRider

    DrydenRider Sun Seeker

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    Yes i would not sweat crown land camping in Ontario with a bike and a tent. The whole rule is focused on getting american fishermen to go to an outfitter. Your chances of getting caught are miniscule and yes pleading ignorance would probably work.
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  15. sturgeon

    sturgeon Long timer

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  16. gepeze

    gepeze Adventurer

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    I'm still waiting for word from a real live person regarding the road restrictions up there. The maps at the following link indicate that restriction as well as the Ogoki Road at the Ogoki River (45 miles short of the Witchwood River bridge you showed.) I refuse to believe those restrictions are real and absolute until I hear from a real person.

    You can travel north of the Ogoki bridge, but no fishing or hunting permitted.
  17. John F

    John F Been here awhile

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    That would really be awesome. While it’s relatively easy to slip into or out of a wild camping spot in a camping-restricted area, it’s a hell of a lot harder to avoid being seen when you’re droning down a road in a riding-restricted area. As long as it isn’t an absolute “no travel beyond this point” I think we’re good.

    I still haven’t heard back from my last email asking for the “official” answer on restrictions up the Ogoki Road. I’ll ping them again. I hope it’s what you say. Thanks.
  18. jdrocks

    jdrocks Gravel Runner

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    it appears that the lower Whitchwood crossing will be, or has been, abandoned once again. the Ogoki Rd. will cross at the new upper bridge, eventually connecting to Jackpine when new logging work starts.
  19. DrydenRider

    DrydenRider Sun Seeker

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  20. Vikingtazz

    Vikingtazz Will ride for food.

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    Question for anyone familiar with Chapleau/Wawa area.

    Is the road showing from Poplar Street in Chapleau to Dalton/Hwy 651 valid?

    Attached Files:

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