Official F5 pre-DAKAR 2022 discussion thread...

Discussion in 'Racing' started by troy safari carpente, Oct 26, 2021.

  1. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    Well... it is November now (almost)... so time to give the F5 pre-DAKAR 2022 discussion thread a kick in the guts I guess...? :1drink





    #1
  2. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    Put up all your pre-event info, rumors, preparation stories and rider predictions/discussions here for the upcoming 2022 DAKAR in Saudi...
    #2
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  3. Gian

    Gian dreamer

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    I've begun to see confirmation... well not (sadly) for some hopeful, Jasmin Riccius and Francesca Gasperi were refused, intersting to read what Jasmin
    has just written on her FB page (https://www.facebook.com/jasminriccius)...

    Dakar application refused: "Sadly, your application for the 2022 Dakar haven’t been selected. We estimate that your race pace is not sufficient to take up serenely the 2022 Dakar, longer and more technical as the Rallye du Maroc 2021."
    That hurt. I was going to Rally du Maroc because the condition was "finish the race". At the opening briefing we got told that the conditions have changed (50 riders, but only 20 positions left). "We will not take the fastest 20, we take the riders that we think are capable for the Dakar challenge". No problem, I stay with my strategy: race with 50% speed to be sure that nothing can go wrong. Would be stupid to crash and destroy the bike or body. "Slow down, don’t be stupid, focus on the goal" was my mantra. Learned my lesson at the first day in the dunes where I ended up dehydrated and had my first contact with the cars. No more problems with the dunes afterwards. In the night after day 2 I got sick: no more food and not lots of water and sleep from there for the last 3 racing days. Giving up was not an option so I continued and finished every race day. It took time because hundreds of kilometers in the dessert without food, stomach pain, cold sweet, nausea and dehydration forced me to think twice about every step I took. Even then I stopped to help others what also took hours.
    I don’t know how many riders would have had the physical energy and mental determination to finish the rally with this health conditions.
    I must accept their decision, for sure they have tier reasons. But I would lie when I say that it's not frustrating: Knowing this conditions before I maybe would have saved the money and qualify during other big rallies in 2022 instead of putting all into one race / chance. Or I would have at least changed my race strategy (race instead of safety first).
    Wish all accepted competitors all the best – wish you a great time and race.
    I will now rethink about my approach and goals for next year.

    I'd add... c'est la Dakar (as usual) :nah
    #3
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  4. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    Dissappointing call...
    #4
  5. Gian

    Gian dreamer

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    #5
  6. Carlos M

    Carlos M www.motoxplorers.com

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    That's a good one... apart from Sugawara San, Peterhansel and Toby Price, can't think of anyone taking the Dakar serenely :D
    #6
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  7. pierrejaune

    pierrejaune superannuated

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  8. Myway

    Myway Long timer

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    PNEU


    roadbook.JPG
    #8
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  9. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    AUDI is setting themselves up for the biggest kick in the nuts since PEUGEOT (made their re-debut in South America IN 2015) with all of the media hoopla around their new e-tron DAKAR contender.







    Will they come out first time, with a totally new vehicle... in a totally new category... and win DAKAR with an all new electric powered platform...

    Well - if any manufacturer can do it... it is probably AUDI.
    #9
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  10. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    A little technical innovation/information...

    #10
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  11. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Long timer Supporter

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    Probably lucky for Audi the race is Saudi Arabia and not crossing Salar de Uyuni in Bolivia. There would some serious arcing and sparking.
    #11
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  12. Balkan Boy

    Balkan Boy Long timer

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    I may have missed it in earlier press releases, but it's first time I hear about this little conventional-looking thing:
    It changes the electric perspective a bit.
    A1.png



    I wonder what odds bookies will give for any of the Audi cars just finishing. It's an easy bet to make if you're a cynic. :D

    It's a bit worrying how that Head of Development makes it sound like the entire team are desert-racing virgins. Surely they brought in experts and veterans from other Dakar car development teams. :scratch
    #12
  13. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    no problem topping up with lithium for the battery though... :lol3
    #13
  14. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Long timer Supporter

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    Good point!
    #14
  15. Balkan Boy

    Balkan Boy Long timer

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    #15
  16. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    The wheels/drive train of the e-tron are powered by independent electric motors... these motors are powered by a large battery pack, which in turn is augmented by an onboard generator. It just so happens that he fact that the onboard generator is a derivative of AUDI's LeMans and FIA LM Championship winning four cylinder turbo diesel racing engine is a mere minor detail. :1drink

    One could counter with the point that much of the worlds electrical energy is (still) currently generated by fossil fuel based power stations... So the AUDI effort is more about pushing the boundaries as far as the technology goes - than any major contribution to solving the fossil based energy transition/fuel crisis.

    I give the germoines a better shot at cracking a podium than what the froggies' had with their first PUGdog back in 2015. :1drink

    Yes... the corporate spiel gives the impression that the majority of the technical inputs comes from their LeMans (diesel generator engine tech), Formula E (electric motor/transmission and battery system tech) and DTM programs (composite/bodywork materials etc.).

    If you look at the e-trons chassis and suspension development work during the time lapse footage in the workshop; I am sure that a lot of the design input in these areas has come from Quandts Q-Sport staff... a good number of whom would have a background from the previous X-Raid Cooper Works buggy, MINI All-Four and BMW X3CC programs.

    I am pretty sure that Perfecthansel and Matador have been pretty hands on in the testing R&D phase also.

    The AUDI factory maybe a "rookie" name at DAKAR... but the team is hardly made up of DAKAR "rookies". :nod
    #16
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  17. Carlos M

    Carlos M www.motoxplorers.com

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    Yep, the battery is a 50 KWh capacity, withouth the diesel onboard the car would move a staggering 6 minutes at WOT (500KW) before stopping :-)

    Well, they do carry a diesel generator aboard (and a bloody effing big one!) but I am still in wonder of this thing!! I have an electrical eng background and an industrial 250KVA genset weighs, what? 3000 kgs? (including frame and canopy, but still!) A 250 KW electrical motor used to weigh? what? 1500 kgs? This beast carries 2 x 250KW. That Audi manages to enclose 500 KW of drivetrain plus a 250 KW range extender, a 50KWh battery and the diesel tank to run the necessary distance (250 KM?) in a prototype that Peterhansel and Sainz consider worth driving...it is quite the achievment.

    One MGU (Motor Generator Unit) per axle is intriguing for me, though. They will be controlling the spinning unloaded wheel with what? A viscous differential? Brakes?
    #17
  18. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    The e-tron DAKAR certainly is an amazing amalgamation of the different technical elements... and that they bring it together in (what one assumes) is a competitve power to weight ratio is astounding in itself.

    I would imagine they might use some form of telemetry sensor (like traction control/torque monitor) connected electronically to the central control/monitoring unit. That would do away with the need for any traditional form of mechanical or viscous/hydraulic differential/transmission - which in itself would represent something of a weight reduction compared to a conventional ICE vehicles engine/drive train platform.

    But as they mentioned in one of the earlier presentation video's... the electric circuitry and systems (+ back up systems) in this car must be mind boggling.
    #18
  19. Snafu2

    Snafu2 Been here awhile

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    You can clearly see driveshafts in the videos so I'd guess that much like Formula E it's a conventional diff. Such is progress, you can get an off the shelf 200kw peak traction motor weighing less than 40kg. I can only guess at what a bespoke application could achieve and I guess the equivalent generator would be much the same.
    Looking forward to seeing this work.
    #19
  20. Carlos M

    Carlos M www.motoxplorers.com

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    40 kg 200 KW is off the shelf standard, that’s amazing, considering that nothing _really_ new has been discovered in electromotion! I guess I am just old and easy to impress nowadays. Nothing really new has been discovered in ICE engines as well but they produce twice or thrice the power and torque of the same capacity engines of my youth…
    #20